DO DOGS GO TO HEAVEN?

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DO DOGS GO TO HEAVEN?

January 7, 2008 by Father Joe

dogangel3 I suppose most Thomists would say that animals do not go to heaven, given that they do not possess immortal souls. This somewhat harsh response is often softened with the assertion that they are not entirely gone in that other animals (like dogs) share their substantial form. Others would say that an animal, like your favorite dog, continues to exist as an idea in the mind of God.

C.S. Lewis remarked that canine loyalty and affection oftentimes put human fidelity and friendship to shame. Because of this he thought that maybe dogs would be allowed to join their masters in heaven. Critics contend that this is just another instance of over-blown English sentimentality.

In any case, there is a growing concensus that the outer circle of hell is patroled by cats.

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Posted in Humor, philosophy, Religion | 135 Comments

135 Responses

on January 8, 2008 at 7:50 am doubtingthomas426

Whether or not someone’s pet goes to heaven or not depends entirely on whether or not the pet’s owner believes in heaven or not. Good luck finding an Atheist who thinks their pet is going to heaven.

FATHER JOE: I am not sure I follow what you say? Do you mean that the existence of heaven and its laws are simply relative truths? No, I would contend that heaven is what it is, totally apart from what we might imagine. If there was no heaven, my thinking there is one would not make it so. Similarly, an athiest who denies heaven cannot negate such a reality if it actually exists… or for that matter, hell.
on January 9, 2008 at 4:57 am doubtingthomas426

My point is, only those who believe in heaven, believe that their pet will join them there.

FATHER JOE: Actually, I believe in heaven for people, but think about pets as you do about yourself– that they are destined only for worm food. But I could be wrong about pets… I still think there might be a place in hell for cats. Yes, I have a cat!

And, sir, the religious constantly shape their reality around their faith and their faith around their reality. Whether YOU do or not is irrelevant.

FATHER JOE: There are many views of an afterlife or the lack of one. Moslems have a rather earthy version, with virgins to despoil. Hindus think Uncle George has come back as a roach. Hollywood usually gives us images of fluffy clouds and a comedic hero who can’t believe he’s dead and still needs to prove himself. Jews look forward to justice and reunion. Christians anticipate the eternal banquet table of Christ. What you say may be true about how faith or its lack colors our views about an afterlife; however, this does not negate the existence of such an afterlife or its objective perameters and qualities. In other words, it is not simply what we think it is but what it is and is not. If you should awaken from the sleep of death and find yourself somewhere, then you will know that we were more than flesh, blood and bone. If you should see red-skinned characters with horns and pitch-forks, then you will know that your miscalculation was a serious one. Haha… sorry for the dark humor!
on January 9, 2008 at 8:57 pm doubtingthomas426

I LOVE dark humor, father joe, but, just to clarify, I wasn’t suggesting that ALL people who believe in heaven believe their pets will meet them there, but simply that those who DO believe their pets are going to heaven are ALWAYS those who believe in heaven themselves. They are NEVER those who don’t believe in heaven, such as atheists. I, personally, LOVE both dogs and cats and am always fascinated by how absolutely different both these species are. They both comfort us in such different and yet similar ways. It could be argued that there is no better way to judge a person’s character than to judge how they treat their pets.

And, of course, even if there were a hell, there would be no red-skinned, cloven-hoofed, pitch fork wielding demons there. These images are, as I’m sure you know, man made inventions.

FATHER JOE: True, the Church appropriated images (even those outside of the Judeo-Christian heritage) to convey something of the corruption and bestial nature of evil. Angels and demons are pure spirits. As such they have no corporeal forms at all. We use symbolic images to express that which cannot be seen. Of course, I suppose that an angel or a demon could also use such commonly held symbols to express itself. I am often amazed at how similar the images are in the West and the Orient that convey the demonic. Fanged teeth, horns, a hybrid animal-human form, etc. The symbolism is pre-Christian and is reflected even in the art of cultures with minimal or no serious interaction. I knew a professor who denied the existence of angelic beings, classifying them as no-bodies… a play on words with Catholic teaching. However, he meant what you intend, that they have no real existence at all. I disagree, of course, and ask protection of St. Michael and of the guardian angels.

Sadly, as long as man has existed, none have ever been able to prove the existence of heaven or hell, or any other sort of ‘afterlife’. If your god is willing to wait until my death to ‘prove’ the reality of his and hells existence, then I must be honest, he is not a god I desire to worship. I am a good, moral, ethical, law abiding person. I do not deserve to burn in eternal hellfire. The fact that I demand proof of any god’s existence before I dedicate my entire life to worshiping him should not condemn me to an eternity of torture. It comes down to a simple line of reasoning; IF there is a hell, as described in the bible, then God can’t be described as ‘good’. A ‘loving’, all powerful god would never allow the existence of such a place. Period. At least I can’t stomach the idea of worshiping one who did.

FATHER JOE: If you mean scientific proof, like finding heaven with a telescope, then you are right… it has not happened and I doubt it ever will. There have been philosophical arguments and proofs for God and some of these have tied in arguments for life beyond the grave. Many religious believers simply count upon the teaching of the Scriptures and/or of their churches or other houses of worship. There is a popular cyclical argument that something of universal man’s hope for life beyond the grave is itself evidence– nature seems to direct us in our aspirations and desires to something beyond ourselves and the grave. We find our absolute subtraction from existence to be a repugnant notion. Just as God gives us natural desires for food, water, comfort, sex and procreation, etc. and makes possible their acquisition; why then would he give us a desire for eternal life and no way to achieve it? Believers turn to faith and, hope seemingly against hope. Others get mad and say that creation is a monstrous joke and if there is a god then he is not worthy of our time and devotion. We want happiness and life; but what we know is suffering and death. The early Jews did not possess a clear idea of life beyond the grave, although among them and the Gentiles, there were references to ghosts. The early Jews saw God’s favor in the land, wealth and children a person might know in this life. Later the problem of pain and the story of Job would force a development in their consideration of an afterlife. God is all just and good. Nevertheless, sometimes good people suffer and bad people flourish. The notion of an afterlife with reward and punishment was a way to make sense of it. God would eventually set the scales aright and balance them. The Church sees this development as a gradual revelation within salvation history.

It should also be remarked that Catholicism does not have the same soteriology as fundamentalist Protestants. None of us deserve salvation, it is a free gift; but God is not capricious or one who delights in punishment. As a priest I leave judgment to God and I live in the “hope” of salvation; however, it would not be my place to say that you or any other person is destined for perdition. Ours is a loving God. The late lay theologian Frank Sheed taught that Catholics must believe in hell as a teaching of faith; however, he added, we can hope that the devil is lonely. Hell is a complicated concept. The greatest pain of hell is not any kind of sensory pain (fire) but one’s alienation from God. It has been argued that the fire might be God’s last gift, to distract the damned somewhat from what they have done to themselves. They were made for God and are incomplete apart from him. The damned are broken puzzles with a crucial piece missing, never to be complete or whole. You see, the damned would want no part of heaven. There is a metaphysical movement. They become their own hells. They hate God and their fellow men. And yet, that spark of the divine that keeps them in existence is an agony to them. God would have preferred them with him. They opted to take a different path and eventually, with death, it is made permanent. They have fashioned themselves with every wicked thought and each selfish act into what they have become and which they will remain. In my own estimation, this is a far more frightful hell than that of cartoon devils with pitch-forks and a fiery furnace running overtime.

It is interesting that St. Paul uses the image of fire for the saints. Like gold we shall be refined and all that does not belong, any impurity, will be burned away. Catholics link that notion to purgation, but the end of the process is perfection.

Catholic thinking about life after death often centers upon the immaterial nature of the soul and our ability for self-reflective consciousness or thinking. But I suspect little would be gained by a further explanation of that since you regard human beings as thinking meat and nothing more… am I right? This opens up many other questions, particularly in morality. The philosophy of selfishness by Ayn Rand would make some sense in this context. Why be good? Why be charitable? If this is all there is, why don’t we take all we can get and then when things get hard put ourselves to sleep like an old dog? It would seem to me that being a atheist is not all that easy a proposition. With what would you replace God, a generic love for humanity? A love for children who will forget you and are just as doomed to be forgotten?

Anyway, I know you think this is all bunk. But I thought I would share anyway. Take care, Paul.

I’m not sure if you’ve visited my site but I hope you will, if for no other reason than to get a better idea of where I am coming from. Take Care.

FATHER JOE: I have seen it. Peace!
on January 22, 2008 at 4:38 pm Marie

OMgosh – Father Joe – how wonderful your reply.
Faith is believing what you cannot see. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet still believe!
Peace – in the true sense of the word, cannot be achieved separate from God. God Bless you.
on February 9, 2008 at 11:03 am Bernard

Dear Father Joe,
I was reading your replies to doubtingthomas426. And I would be remiss if I did not point out that there are numerous passages in the Bible that relate to animals in heaven. Revelation chapter 19 specifically mentions horses in heaven. So, why can’t I believe that my pet dog will make it to heaven. And, as the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen once said, “If it will make us happy in heaven, then our dogs will be there with us”

FATHER JOE: Archbishop Sheen was speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I am unfamiliar with the quote, but note the conditional manner it is cited, “if”. He knew full well that what makes us happy in heaven is the beatific vision. We will see God, face to face. Of course, the substantial forms of animals will continue to exist in an intentional way, as ideas in the divine mind. As for biblical references, Catholics do not read such things in a fundamentalist manner. Poetic license is sometimes used in Scripture and one must be aware of the various literary forms. The problem with animals in heaven is that we do not traditionally view animals as having immortal souls. Having said all this, God can do what he wants to do. The Church really does not teach much of anything on this point. So, I suppose you are free to believe that animals will share paradise with you, although I would then wonder if that opens a door for my cat to endure perdition? Where do we draw the line, ticks and mosquitoes?
on April 17, 2008 at 10:51 am Joanna McGinn

Fr. Joe,
I respectfully would direct you to several books that are researched and quote the same Scriptural supports but “WILL I SEE FIDO IN HEAVEN?: is the best and most cogently written. The author, Mary Price-Buddenmeyer studied at both Maryville and Fuller seminaries and presents Catholic and Protestant viewpoints. Perhaps it’s also well to say that it is up to God to make that decision. I do believe that God will judge how we treat His creation here on earth.

FATHER JOE: Did you read all my responses? I did say that God is free to do whatever he wants to do. This is a topic of some speculation, and while my opinion is generally negative, I may well be proven wrong.

As God has given dogs (and some cats and other companion animals) skills and talents to aid us/teach us we are entering an understanding of their Creator. We have dogs who search out cancer, who guide the blind, who help heal the brokenhearted, who facilitate learning, who bring to connection those afflicted with autism… and the list could go on and on for in truth, we know very little of the abilities which we, even as those created in His image, as we are ‘incomplete’ and God has sent us helpers in the humble guise of an animal. We have been too ‘stiffnecked and proud’ to admit that we, are not as wonderful as we’d like to think ourselves.

FATHER JOE: Yes, animals have their benefit, but please remember, we also eat them. Sheep are stupid, and despite the caricatures in Western movies, horses are not much better. Pigs and cows, on the other hand, are proven to be exceptionally smart, maybe even more so than cats and dogs? If we seriously believed animals had a share in immortality, how could we slaughter them and prepare them for supper? Even Jesus ate lamb.

I’d like to offer up this prayer for you and others to use.

Almighty God, we entrust all who are dear to us to thy never-failing care and love, for this life and the life to come, especially our dear little friends and beloved animals, who rely so completely on us and yet give us so much in return; we give them to Thee knowing that Thou art doing for them better things than we can desire or pray for, and we give thanks for the joy you bring into our lives through sharing them with us; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Adapted from the Book of Common Prayer, #53, at page 831.

FATHER JOE: Thank you for sharing the Anglican prayer, very nice.
on May 29, 2008 at 11:51 pm Labby

Im am alittle confused, if we are selfs think that personality and Consciousness unexplainable indecators that we have souls. Then what would make are personality or Consciousness so diffrent from a dogs, and since its proven that dogs can problem solve, and reson they must have Consciousness. So why would we belive that only Consciousness given to humans is “soul” and Consciousness given to animal or a dog is just a something scientific and unexplainable. Which brings me to another point. If my dog was Conscious and souless and only ment to satisfy me, then why would my pet feel sad when i was away and happy when I play ball with him. Dont we feel the same things! So what im getting at is in a human its called soul and in a pet its called science maybe? Sounds like its just a human nonsense mumbo jumbo that they issued to give them selves dominance and superiority over animals.

Jesus may have eaten lamb…but do you think that jesus would have run into someones abode and eaten their cat or dog. Coul you see jesus saying “Sorry timmy.. Times are getting hard were going to have to eat your cat”

FATHER JOE: Personality and consciousness are not necessarily indicators of a soul. Recently research into ants shows that they have varied personalities, some more industrious, others aggressive, and a few rather lazy. Also, animals are conscious in that there is an awareness. A dog sees a piece of meat and he salivates, heck, he might even dream about meat and bones and mother. What I am talking about here is something different: personhood and self-consciousness. Human awareness is self-reflective, it literally bends into itself, something that traditional Christian philosophers argue that regular matter cannot do. Thus they posit a spiritual substance. Atheists, however, tend to argue instead that we are “thinking meat” and that what passes for human (self-reflective) consciousness is simply an incredibly fast processor speed together with an obscene number of neuron connections.

As for feeling sad or the other emotions, these are attributes of physicality, not the soul. The spiritual capacity for love is not an expression of the emotions and body chemistry but of the human will, a capacity of the soul. The Church does not deny that animals feel emotions (as such), but we should not be so anthropomorphic to think that what they feel is exactly what we feel.

We do not need mumbo-jumbo to give ourselves dominance, such is made manifest by civilization and a rational discernment of the hierarchy of being. There is a created order. We can rationally reflect upon creation and come to a realization of our identity and our place within creation.

By the way, one should never give pet names to food. Members of my family named a chicken and afterwards wasted the meat because they could not eat him. As for dogs, in some places these are delicacies. Indeed, an army friend found it to be his favorite food while he lived in the Philippines. As for cat, well, it really does taste like chicken.

One final comment, look closely at the videos on YouTube of the artistic elephant(s). A caretaker is always on the far side, away from the camera. He is touching the animal’s trunk and sometimes the ears and face. I suspect he is guiding the elephant. In other words, it is probably a trick!
on July 8, 2008 at 10:49 pm Jeri

Father Joe,

I just lost my dear dog today. I’ve been in tears and so distressed all day about this.

I thank you so much for publishing this kind information. I’ve never thought about it before now, but it is true God is taking better care of my Russell than I ever could!

Thank-you!

FATHER JOE: I am not sure that my remarks are all that kind, but I can certainly sympathize with you over the loss of a beloved dog. Some dogs seem more loyal and devoted to us than people. We thank the good Lord for the companionship and joy that beloved pets bring to us. Your dog is commended into the hands of God. Everyone and everything belongs to him. The mystery of death is real for animals and for men. While we as human beings hope for redemption in Christ, we know that nothing of creation is ever forgotten or lost in God. All that made your dog special can still be found in the Creator to whom we are drawn.
on September 19, 2008 at 2:33 am CeeCee

CEECEE: Father Joe, I enjoyed reading what you wrote & your replies to other comments. Now, I have a question…if not our bodily forms, what exactly ARE we in heaven? How do we communicate in heaven if we have no mouths, how do we hear if we have no ears, etc.? Sorry if this is a difficult question to answer but it’s been something on my mind lately. Thank you for this post, by the way.

FATHER JOE: Angels have no bodies as such and yet they can communicate. The human soul has the powers of mind and will. While we do not have angelic powers, certainly God could make it possible for our ghosts to communicate with him and other souls. You can hear your own thoughts without speaking aloud. We are promised a share in the life of Jesus and Mary. Ultimately, that means that we will be resurrected as body and soul. While we will not be subject to mortal limitations, sickness and death, we will have our tangible bodies restored to us, albeit in a glorified state.
on September 25, 2008 at 3:35 pm josenia samson

i always lose a pet dog that i have kept for 10 years or less. i know that their lives are shorter and more compressed than ours. it always brings me to tears but i always leave all my pains to God since He is the source and creator of everything else. i thank God for bringing my dog to my life. my dog died without me by his side but i hope God would have a way to let him know that he will always be in my heart and for 8 years i have cherished my memories with him.
on October 6, 2008 at 3:31 pm Willie

I believe in heaven and hell, and I believe dogs and cats or any other pet we loved on earth will be there for us when we die.

No one knows if animals have souls or not, and no one knows what happens when death happens. After my dog died last year, I adopted a rescue dog. Now, many of you, probably most of you, won’t process or believe this, but my new dog acts odd at night where my Queen, dog who died, slept. Last night she jumped onto my bed, then jumped back down and slept in her dog bed where Queen used to sleep. I heard her stir about, and when I got up to go the bathroom she was gone. I looked for her and found her on the guest room bed, she never slept there before, on it looking scared. I’m convinced she saw Queen. I wouldn’t want to go to heaven if my Queen wasn’t there and I think God keeps our pets in the palm of his hands until we are ready to join them. I’m sure I will get a lot of “your nuts, or yea, sure dogs have souls” but that’s not important to me. What is that God is love, and the love we have for our pets or loved ones, go with us when we pass on. The bond we share with our pets is strong, and at times stronger then we feel for humans. They ask for nothing, but give us Love, and isn’t that what God is about?

FATHER JOE: You would not want to go to heaven if your dog was not there? I can appreciate the pain of loss, but let us keep our priorities straight. You should want to go to heaven because you love God and want to be with him. To hell with the dogs, or at least with the cats! (not literally of course)
on October 6, 2008 at 6:51 pm Michael

Animals do not have immortal souls like we do Willie. Man was created for God and animals were created for man.

I love animals too Willie. They’re delicious.

FATHER JOE: You have a mean streak Michael. If we find an angry pack of dogs waiting for us at the Pearly Gates, I am sending you in first. Hopefully that might distract them long enough for me to sneak in.
on October 6, 2008 at 9:56 pm Michael

Very funny Father!

Many of my friends have said that God gave me the right name.

St. Michael, my patron, is no push over either.

My point was that I will never pass up a good steak or a good Italian meatball.

I’m also a deer hunter and I donate most of the meat to the homeless folks.
on October 7, 2008 at 3:11 pm Willie

There is no proof animals don’t have souls. I was rasied Catholic, went to Cathlolic school back in the 50′s and 60′s. The nuns back then were nasty, beat the kids, ect. when I told the num animals had souls she had a fit.none of know about our furry brothers and sisters until we die, then we will know. Yes, we have our own views, and each one should be condsidered. I also believe we may come back, do it get right.

Yes, I love God/Jesus the Virgin Mary and the angels and saints. Getting to Heaven at least for me is a hard task. Perfection, which I”m not and the readers probably aren’t either. I think we go to a place, like a school when we die to learn about our mistakes before we go to heaven.

I was dx with MS back in 88. I had lesions on my brain but I could amble about and do chores around the house. two years my last MRI was CLEAN, no lesions, and the neuro said “there is nothing there anymore. ” He noted I was given a mircale. I’ve been cured of MS. God healed me. I’m blessed but wonder why he chose me. I’m not special and a sinner. Nickel and Dime sins. I’m also cancer free for seven and half years.

I’m still banking on I will see my sweet dog again.

Yes, God make animals for man. We must stop the fur trade in China where they skin dogs and cats alive. check this out on the net. this is cruel , because animals feel pain and deserve better then being subjected to being skinned alive, and living for hours or a day in pain. I’m for the humane treatment of animals and the humane treatment when used for food.

Peace to All. God is Love. Willie
on October 7, 2008 at 5:59 pm Michael

Willie,

I had pets too and I also miss them. My thought is that animals don’t possess immortal souls like we do because they don’t have an intellect combined with a will as we do.
It was man who fell in the garden. The rest of creation had nothing to do with it.

Animals sometimes have a better life than we do though. They don’t have to worry about work, paying bills or taxes or preparing meals. They sleep whenever and wherever they want to. They don’t have to worry about finding a bathroom. They even chase the mailman away…the guy who brings the bills. Nice life! They make better friends than some humans that I know.

The nuns back in the day were very hostile. I agree. They taught us to sing “Make me a channel of your Peace” then they beat the hell out of us. Some of them could qualify for the UFC today. ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP.
on October 7, 2008 at 6:18 pm Michael

Oh, Willie. I forgot something.
I think that when we get to heaven, we will be soooo mesmerized by The Holy Trinity that we won’t even think twice about seeing Pookie, Spot, or our relatives and friends who went before us.
on October 15, 2008 at 11:25 am June

Whether dogs go to Heaven or not is still a wide open question! Regardless of the answer, I get great comfort from the following:

SONNET FOR A GOOD SHEPHERD

When I shall lose my heart’s last beat and go
Across the great green fields beyond this place,
The dog will rise from his dark bed below
The marigolds, and yawn, and set his pace
With mine, commingling nostalgic signs,
For Earth’s old trails…with loyalty to one
Who never could concede his amber eyes
And tawny coat to long oblivion—

Thus lightly shall we pass, and pause to rest
A while together on transition’s knoll,
That I may calm his eager bounding zest
To rush upon Green Pastures of the soul—
I have no doubt the gate will ease, just wide
Enough for us to enter…side by side—

Frances Eleanore Schluneger
on November 19, 2008 at 2:26 pm arko

I have worked as a police officer for several years. I had to put my police dog to sleep this month. He was 11, he had DM. He was slowly getting worse. I took him to the vet and he said I should have him put to sleep. I took his advice because I trust the vet.

That being said I have struggled with the decision, believing that maybe I made it too early. That is on my heart and one I have to deal with.

I went to a catholic school 1-12. After hs, I went to college and never really thought about religion. I started going to church again after my daughter was born last year. I believe that God will reunit us with our pets, I worked and lived with my partner for years. He was not a pet, and he was never refered to as a pet. He was my partner, like someone you went to war with everyday. We had a trust, and a love that will never be replaced. I often describe it this way. I believe my heart is like a large circle. when some one you love dies, there space is taken away, like a pie graph, and that part is removed. It can never be replaced, at least here on earth. I do believe that If I can be allowed to go to heaven then I will again be reunited with my partner. I don’t know if I was ever taught a specific idea of heaven while in school, but I have my own idea of heaven, and my old partner is part of it.

In closing I feel that we as humans can not truely grasp Gods love till we die and meet him. I believe that we see all of our loved ones when we die, four legs or 2.
on November 21, 2008 at 3:10 pm argo,

Argo,

Sorry about your loss. I had my dog Queen put down 14 months aga and i still cry over her.

You made the right choice in having your dog put down. their eyes tell us when it’s ,and when we are that close to a dog,, we just know. Ido beieve we will see our pets again. I think they around us from time to time

it’s never easy to lose our friend. I held my dog queen in my arms when the Vet gave her the shot.I told her “They’re all there, her buddy dog who died before her, and when You get there tell everyone Hey for me. ” She died in myarms. I held her for one hour until my hubby pulled me away from her. I closed her eyes with my finger, and placed her head on her paws so she looked like she had some dignity. I had her creamated and I still can’t look at the wooden box with her name in Brass. It’s to hard.

The day after Queen died I adopted a rescue lab. Montana asI named her was abused so badly the Vet d idn’t know if her ears needed to be removed. She had a bee bee stuck in her nose and has scars on one leg. she was either in a trap or abused. She is a wonderful dog. She hates men though and is scared of them. Montana helped me through the grieving process and I helped her regain her trust in humans. Humans, I really don’t like them. But dogs they are just a big LOVE.

So Argo, I guess by now you are getting another dog partner.Of course he or she won’t be like your main dog, but you will love this dog and bond with it and again your heart will smile.

God Bless
on November 24, 2008 at 9:41 am arko

thanks for the response argo. But I am not working police dogs any more. I have no desire to. The place and experiences that I had with my partner were unique. I miss him and I am working on getting him memorialized. Thanks for the support, but I will not be working police dogs any more, and a new pet will not take his place. I am dealing with the loss as we all do. Thanks for the words, and may God Bless you too.
on November 24, 2008 at 1:43 pm willie

Hello, I wrote in the name, Argo instead of Willie, to respond to the loss of your dog.

What helped me when my dog Queen died was to get another dog. I did, a rescue dog. No, Montana isn’t Queen, and will never take her place, but I needed another dog. Even after 14 months Montana hasn’t taken Queen’s place, but she does give me joy, makes me smile and to have dog sleep with me again.

Like u and my dog Queen and we shared so much. Moving across courntry twice. from TN to ND, then to OH. She helped me through my cancer sugery and sat by me when I was sick from chemo. She was there when my hubby had his three heart attacks. I couldn’t have made it without her. We walked each evening and after her death, I have only Montana four times. I just don’t feel like, but need to do as I have MS and other health problems. at times I feel what the “Hell.” Yes, it’s hard and dealing with it , in my mind “you can’t” You just have to learn to live with it, which I’m not doing so well. I miss her, have dreamt about her and knows she will be there when I die. I have to believe that.

I know u don’t want another dog, but one would help you. Us dog lovers love our dogs like our kids. When they die a part of us dies with them. Our heart is ripped apart and we need it to smile again. I think of the good times I had with Queen, cry buckets of tears, so I don’t think of the good times anymore, To painful for me. Like you I wished I had more time with my best friend. I do feel sorry for folks who don’t have t his bond with their pets. On the other hand we suffer because of it. Is it worth it. Yes. Because it makes us real. Love makes us real and never , never dies. They are always with us, when we remember then.

God bless. Willie and Montana
on January 1, 2009 at 1:37 am Robert, the sinner

It is ridiculous to speak of Heaven for earthworms and mosquitos (yet C.S. Lewis said that a heaven for mosquitos could be a hell for man!) BUT, not so of a companion animal of higher sentience such as a beloved dog.

I hope that most of you will take comfort from this article by an Orthodox priest from the Diocese of New England. I know that as an Orthodox Christian I certainly did.

All dogs go to heaven

by Father John Dresko

“sin came into the world through one man and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men because all men sinned”.
(St. Paul to the Romans 5:12, RSV)

Lady, our beloved dog and friend for almost eleven and one half years, died two days before Forgiveness Sunday. Although she had been sick with cancer, she had just started treatment and her death was quite sudden and shocking to us, happening at 3:00 a.m. in a strange emergency animal hospital. As my wife and I stroked her beautiful coat for the last time and shed our tears as we said goodbye, a few thoughts came to my mind – all of which connect with our celebration of the Lord’s Resurrection.
My first thought as I looked at her lifeless body was just how fallen, corrupt and sinful this world really is. The only reason death reigns in this world is because of sin. As St. Paul reminds us in his letter to the Romans, sin was brought into this world by man, and by sin death. Sin so permeates creation that nothing remains untouched by sin and death – even animals. Despite the fact that our dog did nothing except offer love and companionship, despite the fact that our dog (and all of creation except for human beings) was sinless, she still shared in the fate that awaits everyone and everything in this created world. She died.

For the first time in my life, I truly understood the agony that Christ felt when He stood at the tomb of His friend Lazarus and wept. He did not weep because He was not sure if Lazarus was going to be raised. Nor because He wanted to show His friends and family the grief He felt. He wept because He saw His creation – so lovingly crafted, so lovingly cared for, so lovingly created for divine communion with Him – lying dead and corrupting in a tomb. Sin and death had brought the divine creation to the point where creation preferred the tomb to the Kingdom of God.

As a priest for twenty years, I have dealt with suffering and death on a fairly regular basis. Somehow, I can understand the correlation between my own sins and death. I can understand the correlation between the sins of every person created and death. But to see the correlation between sin and the death of all of creation was something I understood, and even taught, in an analytical sense, but never understood and felt in my heart and soul – until now. As I looked at our beloved friend lying there, I understood. My sins, and the sins of everyone created, have corrupted this world to the point where she had to suffer the consequences. She had no choice in the matter. She also had no guilt.

Resurrection, however, is a reality that we believe and trust in. Christ wept over the tomb of Lazarus, but He also raised Lazarus. He wept over Jerusalem, but gave us the Church. He saw that we prefer the tomb to the Kingdom of God, but redeemed us.
The resurrection of Christ begins the re-creation of the world. Everything and everyone will be made anew in Him. St. Paul reminds us that God has made Christ “the head over all things for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.” (Ephesians 1:22-23, RSV). The risen Christ fills everything with Himself. All of creation will be redeemed and sanctified.

I am no theologian, but my cursory examination of the question of animals and the Resurrection brings commentary down on both sides at best. Animals (as well as the rest of created nature except for humans) do not sin; therefore they also have no need of redemption. But there is commentary that would tell us that animals (indeed, the whole world and all of creation) will share in the coming again of Christ and the eternal reign of the Kingdom of God. The corruption that they face because they exist in this fallen world will be washed away in the re-creation of the world in Jesus Christ. St. John of Damascus says “the earth that is to be the possession of the holy is immortal.” (Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, Chapter X).

We also believe that anyone who experiences a truly loving relationship experiences the presence of God. I do not believe for one second that God placed such creatures as our dog on this earth as “throwaways” who simply cease to exist when they fulfill their purpose and then die. All of creation is part of God’s divine plan and all of creation will be redeemed in Christ Jesus. There was a kid’s movie a few years back that proclaimed: “All Dogs Go to Heaven.” I have no doubt.
Lady placed her absolute trust in us for everything. We did our best for her, but it was not enough. Luckily, blessedly, we can place our trust in Someone better than us. Unconditional love and loyalty are divine qualities.

Thank you, Lady.

(Fr. John Dresko is a priest in the Orthodox Church in America, and President of the Alumni Association of St. Vladimir’s Orthodox Seminary.)
on January 14, 2009 at 7:14 pm Billy Howard

Fr. Dresko, God Bless you for writing this. I have lost two loving dogs within the last 4 1/2 months. The first was due to a accident in my own driveway. Maggie was 3 1/2 years old and I rescued her from a Georgia Farmers market where she was starving and un trusting. I already had 3 dogs and did not want another. After 5 days, she was waiting for me to come to work every morning and she would sleep on the steps waiting for me each day. She needed me and had seen something inside me that she loved. I took her home and she became a loving member of my family. I loved Maggie with all my heard and was heart broken when she died. I rushed her to the local vet where he could not save her. I held her sweet little head as I saw the life go out or her eyes. I was still crying over her alot then my oldest dog Co Co age 9 1/2 went down hill fast. She had a tumor for 18 months and on Jan 11, 2009 I had to put her asleep. She was my best friend and I have never met such a sweet, kind soul as hers with the exception of Jesus.When the vet gave her her first shot, I was holding her as she went limp onto the table. She could not move. She realized what was fixing to happen so she tried to kiss my hand gently with her toung and I kissed her back. Tears started coming from her eys so I gently wiped them off and was telling her all about doggie heaven and I would see her again. Then the second shot was given and she passed away. I again saw the life go out of her eyes. I have never felt so much pain, my baby that trusted and loved me unconditionally just died in my arms. I just cannot imagin that our God that loves us unconditionally would let such a sweet soul just vanish.
I too believe and pray to our lord that there is a place in heaved so we can re unite with our loving pets. I have never felt such love except for our lord. I am blessed that I still have 5 more dogs to care and love me but Co Co was special, we went through so much together and I was looking foward to spending many more years with Maggie and my other dogs. Accidents happen, Jesus said it himself.
You gave me so much hope and faith in telling me that our dogs don’t sin therefore they don’t need redemptiom. If you think about that, its just common sence.
You have put my mind at ease that when my job here on earth is done and I am called home that my loving pets will be there waiting on me to live forever in the kingdom of God to serve. God Bless you. If you would like to see photos of my furry babies go to http://www.myspace.com/billy30233
on January 15, 2009 at 9:45 am Billy Howard

Dear “Robert the Sinner”I just realized that you were the one who posted this after you found the writing. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting this.
I am still having a hard time and just break down crying many times a day however this has given me hope and with faith and prayers to our Father, I am sure that with his grace we will be re united with our best friends after we leave this earth.
I am a retired law enforcement officer and has seen death many times and have always been able to handle the stress somehow but let me tell you that as strong as I am, I am having a hard time dealing with my two furry babbies passing in such a short period from each other.
I smile to think that they are out of pain, happy and in the kingdom of God somewhere in or near heaven. I found a web site Called Rainbow Bridge that has helped also. http://www.rainbowbridge.com
I don’t really know how I found this writing you posted, I can only say that it was sent to me from our Lord due to the pain I am experenceing.
Again thanks, and God Bless everyone connected in this web site.
on January 19, 2009 at 11:16 pm Jacob

Dear Father Joe,

I personally feel that a person should be able to freely choose to believe whether or not their pets go with them to heaven, considering I believe in Heaven and Christ because I CHOOSE to. God created us with a mind so we would be able to make choices, and he wants us to be happy. I believe that if God wanted us to be truly happy, he would accept our devoted pets into Heaven. The space is not limited in Heaven, and I think you are being slightly insincere to tell others that their animals will not reach Heaven. It is not so much even that we will join our pets in Heaven, but the fact that they get there… somewhere where they will be happy, where they deserve to be, after all they have done for people, including myself. I have just recently lost my dog after seven years, which is a lot harder than I ever imagined. Animals are God’s creatures.

Sincerely,
Jacob

FATHER JOE: The Church teaches nothing definitive about it, so (I suppose) you are free to believe whatever you wish about the disposition of animals. I have a right to my opinion, just as you do. We will find out one day which position is genuine. My view is not based upon sentiment but rather upon a view that distinguishes between the souls of men and the substantial forms or souls of animals. Our happiness in heaven is not dependent upon whether our dog or cat makes it to heaven; indeed, there is no guarantee that your son or spouse or parent will share eternity with you. However, even if someone we know rejects Christ and saving grace, damning themselves to hell; our happiness is not dependent upon a love of creatures but rather upon the Creator. All the substantial forms of animals are present in the divine mind. Nothing is lost. Those who possess the beatific vision will know sublime joy in just being in the presence of God.
on January 20, 2009 at 9:45 am Michael

We can choose to believe in anything that we want to, but we must also use some common sense. Animals don’t possess immortal souls like we do and God didn’t intend to make them heaven bound like us. Animals were made for man and man was made for God.

Once we’ve seen God and our relatives, we will care less about the pets that we had while on earth.

I know that people get very upset when their pets die. My wife’s dog died and the house was flipped upside down for a long time. She promised herself that she would never get another dog so long as she lives. The death of that dog was too painful for her.
on January 25, 2009 at 1:40 am kelly

Psalm 36:6

FATHER JOE: “…all living creatures you sustain, LORD.” This simply means that God is the giver of all life. It does not mean that animals have an individualistic or “personal” afterlife. Would we claim that every blade of grass has an existence that extends into perpetuity? The hallmark of material creation is MAN with his immortal soul. The substantial form for other creatures is sustained as a pattern in the infinite divine mind; if particular creatures other than human beings should be restored, I suspect it will only be because they are so much a part of us. However, our true longing and love will find utterly satisfaction in the beatific vision. Neither the absence of the damned nor that of pets should cause us any sorrow whatsoever. Our whole being will be filled by the light of God’s presence and we will know joy.
on January 25, 2009 at 7:37 am Deb

My dog is 13 and has bad arthritis…I know his days are numbered and the pain I feel now, will not be close to the pain I feel then. He has been a great dog, great companion and always full of love. I can’t see going through this again.
I like Fr. Groechel’s comment on dog’s and heaven, he said, if needed, God will give you your pet, if it will increase your joy in heaven, I can’t see why he wouldn’t, but if your joy would be complete without him/her, then you wouldn’t want them. But to see your dead relatives, friends and then your trusted dog, might be in his will, OUR will doesn’t say yes or no at all. Animals will be in heaven, why not yours?

FATHER JOE: Maybe, I just do not know. I am hesitant to allow sentiment and emotions to dictate eschatological and soteriological theology.
on January 25, 2009 at 8:07 am Gabrielle

I find comfort in, “Isaiah 11:6-11 where God says, “the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox . . . They will neither harm nor destroy on all My holy mountain for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord . . .” (Isaiah 65: 25).” and

In 1990, His Holiness proclaimed that “the animals possess a soul and men must love and feel solidarity with our smaller brethren.” He went on to say that all animals are “fruit of the creative action of the Holy Spirit and merit respect” and that they are “as near to God as men are.” Animal lovers everywhere were overjoyed!

FATHER JOE: Catholicism would frown upon the mistreatment of animals. We are called to proper stewardship. While I would not want to cause dispair upon this question about animals and an afterlife; Pope John Paul II was probably making reference to “soul” in the philosophical sense. The word soul becomes interchangable with “substantial form”. Unlike the human soul which is particularized and not just a generic humanity, the vegitative and animal souls would exist as eternal paradigms in the divine mind.

The Holy Father reminded people that all living beings, including animals, came into being because of the “breath” of God. Animals possess the divine spark of life–the living quality that is the soul–and they are not inferior beings, as factory farmers, fur farmers, and others who exploit animals for profit would have us believe.

FATHER JOE: You make a leap here not substantiated by the papal text. Compared to human beings, they are indeed inferior beings. There is papal garb that uses animal fur and meat is frequently on his menu in the Vatican. Certain Catholics connect the PETA agenda to the Church’s pro-life stance; but such is not universally so.

After he became Pope John Paul II, His Holiness went to Assisi, the birthplace of St. Francis, and spoke of the saint’s love for animals. He declared, “We, too, are called to a similar attitude.”

PSALM 36:6 Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O LORD.

FATHER JOE: While something of Christ’s redemptive work brings salvation to the world, this does not mean that animals are “saved” as human beings hope to be. A better translation is the revised New American: “Your justice is like the highest mountains; your judgments, like the mighty deep; all living creatures you sustain, LORD.” God is affirmed as the Creator of all things, keeping them in existence. When this mortal world passes, nothing will be lost. We will be called to eternal friendship with God. And, all the things of nature from birds to trees to dogs and cats to worms and ants will exist as perfect forms in the eternal mind that never forgets.

That is my view and the most that is definitively taught. If God should want a few individual manifestations of his substantial forms to exist among us in the life to come, that would be his perogative. I am not convinced that such is the case. What is a dog without grass in which to run and rabbits to chase?
on January 25, 2009 at 5:24 pm Janet

I agree with Fr. Joe that when we experience the beatific vision it will be so beautiful and our joy will be overwhelming that we will not give a second thought to our pets or even our loved ones here on earth who do not make it into heaven.

On the other hand, who knows if God will not multiply tenfold for each one of us individually all our earthly joys as well? That to me would include the love and compansionhip of a beloved pet.

It is up to God and we have no idea what awaits each of us us in heaven. As scripture tells us “eye has not seen and ear has not heard what God has ready for those who love Him.”

It is up to Him alone who goes to heaven–how each will be judged and how each will also be rewarded.

We on earth can only speculate based on scripture; but I think we can all agree it will be a place of unending and perfect joy.

Michael, If it gives great comfort to those who believe they will see their pets again why do you try so hard to convince them otherwise? Let them be –and grieve the loss of their pets in whatever way they wish.
on January 27, 2009 at 11:09 pm lesa

I would just say as an amimal lover that if my fellow pet lovers get comfort from the fact that their pets will be reunited with them in Heaven, so be it. Think that way. There is nothing bad about thinking like that, and so far no one has proven that animals are absolutely not in Heaven. None of us have been to Heaven, and no one knows the exact answer. God made animals, loves them, and no animal is capable of sin, so why would God not want them in his eternal plan and with the people who loved them so much down on earth. I choose to believe until someone can prove to me otherwise.
on January 28, 2009 at 5:28 pm kathy

To Billy Howard:

Saw your CoCo, beautiful dog (on MySpace) and understand your pain having just lost my German Shepherd Nov. 29th. Yes, you cry like a baby when people never expect you to cry. As far as not believing dogs have souls, I highly disagree with that theory. They teach us humans things about life that only something with a soul could teach us. They teach us passion, humility, trust, loyalty and love,when we think we are incapable. I don’t care what anyone says, God gave us souls and most of us never achieve these qualities and yet, these animals teach us these things. I guess in theory, we can say trees, bees, flowers are all living things and therefore, cannot have souls but they also don’t possess emotions like animals. I have absolutely no doubt that God could not be so cruel as to not let us have our pets as our final reward, along with seeing Him, of course, lol. And that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it!!
on January 28, 2009 at 5:44 pm kathy

To Arko:

I’m also sorry about your partner that you recently lost. Just remember, your partner was a gift from God that you cherished and loved. I know it’s hard to think about another dog at this time like one of the other people suggested and maybe you won’t get another dog. Another dog doesn’t “replace” your friend, but another dog is a way of honoring your partner and friend. Some people can go right out and get another dog, I’m one of those people but I never search for them, they find me. My Kacin was one that sought me out when I thought I couldn’t face getting another dog after my Molly died. He appeared in my life, abused and needing a home desperately as he was being put down that day by the Animal Shelter only three days after my Molly died. Of course, I reluctantly took him only to realize that he had a window to my soul for the next 10 years. He taught me so much, he touched so many lives and was truly a gift from God that I will love to the day I die. So.. guess what I’m saying here is….Never say Never.
on February 6, 2009 at 10:58 am Bob

OF COURSE dogs go to heaven; cats too! How do I know? I have it on good authority that if I somehow make it, I’ll be responsible for cleaning the litter boxes!
on February 6, 2009 at 3:11 pm Michael

Janet,

I miss my pets too, but when we get to heaven I can assure you that seeing pookey or spot won’t be first on our lists.
on February 6, 2009 at 7:57 pm Janet

Michael,

Are you sure you can assure? LOL

I didn’t realize you had a sneak peek!

Heck, at least if they made it to 250th on the list…that would be nice.
on February 7, 2009 at 10:21 am Michael

Janet,
We don’t need to be mystics to see.
If we obey the ten commandments then the answer should be simple. The first commandment is to love the Lord our God with everything that we have. To want to be with the one who loves us more than anyone else should put our dearly beloved deceased pets last on the list.
It stands to reason does it not?

If someone loves a creature more than they do God then they are violating the first commandment. Man was created in the image and likeness of God for God. Animals were made for the benefit of man.

Jesus told Thomas: “Happy are they who don’t see and believe.” We can see through the eyes of our faith and scripture tells us that without faith we cannot please God.

The first thing that I want to see when I die is the merciful face of Jesus and hear Him say to me: “enter into my fathers house.”
on February 7, 2009 at 10:58 am Janet

Michael

I don’t see anyone here is suggesting that they love an animal more than God almighty –

All they are hoping is that perhaps they would see their pets again – if that gives them comfort in this world let it be with them..and we don’t know nor it is clearly shown in scripture that we won’t…so that remains to be seen. Who knows what God has for each of us.

I have had pets die as well and frankly I don’t dwell on their passing for any inordinate amount of time– I cried and felt bad for awhile. It would be nice to see them in heaven, but is not at the top of my list – far from it.

But maybe others take it much more harder is all I am trying to say and we can’t begrudge them their feelings.

There would be someting terribly wrong in a person’s priorities if they put a beloved pet at the top of the list as the first thing to see in heaven.– I agree we should be waiting and enthralled to see our Lord’s glorious face first and foremost welcoming us.

God bless you -

Janet
on February 7, 2009 at 11:00 am Janet

Bob,

I disagree with your comment about the litter boxes! Heaven should be a place of joy – let the kitties clean up after themselves if they make it there! As a cat owner, we have done our penance here on earth plenty of times over….
on February 7, 2009 at 2:48 pm Michael

Cats can replace cats and dogs can replace dogs but no one can replace God or other human beings.

People have the tendency to put pets before other people. I know of someone who loved her dog sooo much that when it died she couldn’t handle it. Instead of trying to have a baby she was preoccupied with her dog for 11 long years. Now she is trying to get pregnant for the first time and is having a hard time. She’s in her late 30′s.
All that I’m saying is that I would rather see God in Heaven then my deceased dog.

I also hope that there aren’t any cats in heaven. Not that I don’t like cats, but I’m allergic to cat dander. I like all animals especially the Whitetail deer. I know a lot about them because I’ve been studying them for many years.

The tv ads talk about animals needing love right? What about the old folks in nursing home that get no visitors? Aren’t they more important? I think that it’s wise to adopt the sentiments and the thoughts of our creator. I know that God loves all of His creation, which includes His animal world. I also think that He loves man the most because He sent Jesus to save the souls of immortal man. Jesus didn’t come to save animals from spiritual death. He came for mankind.

I’m not a callous or crass person. I didn’t like it when my pets died either, but I decided never to become attached again for my own benefit and peace of mind.
on February 9, 2009 at 11:00 am Lady Godless

Michael said: “I’m not a callous or crass person. I didn’t like it when my pets died either, but I decided never to become attached again for my own benefit and peace of mind.”

Does that work? In my experience, when it comes to love and attachment, grief and loss — there seems to be no ducking these things. It’s like William Blake said in The Auguries of Innocence:

It is right it should be so;
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro’ the world we safely go.

Joy and woe are woven fine,
A clothing for the soul divine.
Under every grief and pine
Runs a joy with silken twine.

So, joy and woe are necessary and inseparable. To the extent that you can avoid woe, you forfeit joy along with it, and maybe even a part of your own self.

(Of course, whether you have pets is up to you. I’m not second guessing your decision, just more generally wondering about the extent to which grief is avoidable in life, and the cost of that.)
on February 9, 2009 at 12:54 pm Michael

Madalen,

Both joy and woe continue after this life.
It’s up to us.

I feel that I would be doing my emotions a disservice by having another pet after one dies. That’s why we don’t have a live dog. I do have a dog named Scotty though. He’s great! He looks like a real Scottish terrier. He’s black and fluffy and sits by my TV all of the time. I never have to walk him, feed him, or take him to the vet. He never barks, but he does get a little dusty once in a while. I never have to worry about him dying on us or about my father-in-law feeding him trays of chicken and Italian food.
on February 13, 2009 at 3:36 pm Deirdre

My grandmother wrote this – I’m wondering where it was found? Deirdre Schluneger
SONNET FOR A GOOD SHEPHERD

When I shall lose my heart’s last beat and go
Across the great green fields beyond this place,
The dog will rise from his dark bed below
The marigolds, and yawn, and set his pace
With mine, commingling nostalgic signs,
For Earth’s old trails…with loyalty to one
Who never could concede his amber eyes
And tawny coat to long oblivion—

Thus lightly shall we pass, and pause to rest
A while together on transition’s knoll,
That I may calm his eager bounding zest
To rush upon Green Pastures of the soul—
I have no doubt the gate will ease, just wide
Enough for us to enter…side by side—

Frances Eleanore Schluneger
on February 19, 2009 at 10:15 pm Barbara

I lost my beloved dog Taffy last week very suddenly and unexpectedly. We had her for 13 years. It is very hard, and I don’t know exactly what to say to my kids about dogs going to heaven. I explained that animals don’t have souls like people, but they hear people saying things like dogs go to heaven.

It would be nice to have Taffy in eternal life, but I don’t know how that would work out without the Dog having an immortal soul.

How do I explain to the kids (and me!) that even though we love the dog very much, that we won’t have her in heaven?

Barbara

FATHER JOE: Everything good and noble in the dog lives on in God. Nothing is lost. Nothing is forgotten.
on March 5, 2009 at 11:17 am Michael

I’m reading a book called Everything you wanted to know about Heaven by Peter Kreeft. I recommend it highly. In the beginning of that book he poses 14 basic questions about Heaven. One of those questions asks if there are animals in Heaven. The author is adamantly certain that the answer to that question is YES. There are animals that exist in Heaven.
He references Psalm 36: 6
“LORD, your love reaches to heaven; your fidelity, to the clouds.
Your justice is like the highest mountains; your judgments, like the mighty deep; ALL LIVING CREATURES you sustain, LORD.”

The real tragedy is that animals make it to Heaven, while some people fall into hell.

FATHER JOE: Gosh, you sentimentalists and your animals!
on May 24, 2009 at 9:55 pm Avery

My half Great Dane half Boxer died two weeks ago, his name was Jack.
I believe all of us will be reunited with our pets in heaven when we die. Actually, the question should not be if we will see our pets in heaven, but if our pets will see us. I say this because humans are gods only creation that sin.
Here are a few quotes from the bible some of you may like to hear.

In Psalm Psalm 145:-9-10,13,15-21 God loves all His creation and has made plans for all His children and the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal Kingdom.

Genesis 1:30 To every animal of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is a living soul.
on May 24, 2009 at 9:58 pm Avery

My dog died two weeks ago, and i would like to post some of the quotes from the bible.

Genesis 1:30 To every animal of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is a living soul.

In Psalm Psalm 145:-9-10,13,15-21 God loves all His creation and has made plans for all His children and the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal Kingdom.
on May 24, 2009 at 11:21 pm mr. WAC

Fr. Hardon, writing in his answer column several years ago, cited the speculation of some early-modern theologians (poss. Suarez?) about this very question. The speculation went like this: Animals do not go to heaven for the usual Thomistic reasons. BUT, if the presence of animals in heaven would serve to further perfect the happiness of Paridise, then it is possible that God MAY put them there AFTER the consumation of the world, as it would be impossible for any bodily thing to be brought to heaven prior to the General Ressurection and Last Judgement (remember that the animal soul, lacking the qualities of the immortal soul, can neither be judged or rewarded/punished).
on June 2, 2009 at 2:22 am to Deb

to Deb

I hope you read this mail meant for you. My dog also has artritis and she had a stem cell transplant. Three days after, she was walking better and jumping onto the bed to sleep. Go to Vet-Stem.com, if this isn’t correct let me know and I will look for the booklet. The cost was $2,000. Yes a alot of money but my dog isn’t suffering. The stem cell transplants have been going on for four years. The Vets tried it on horses, now dogs and cats. They take fat from the dog, then ship it overnight to CA where the cells are taken. Then shipped back overnight to the Vet. I banked the rest of the stem cells in ca se she will need it. I think this will be used on humans some day. Me for one, would try it now.I suffer so in pain. Good Luck. I hope your dog can benfit from the transplant. It works. Willlie
on June 10, 2009 at 12:21 am For the love of dogs...

Father Joe,

You state….. FATHER JOE: Personality and consciousness are not necessarily indicators of a soul. Recently research into ants shows that they have varied personalities, some more industrious, others aggressive, and a few rather lazy. Also, animals are conscious in that there is an awareness. A dog sees a piece of meat and he salivates, heck, he might even dream about meat and bones and mother.

Maybe you should get a dog…then get back to us in about 10 years and give us your personal opinion, not your theory.

FATHER JOE: Maybe you should learn some manners and maintain your own Blog instead of telling others how to operate theirs? People have souls. People go to heaven or hell. If God should think the presence of animals in heaven should in any way enhance or complete the happiness of his children then he certainly has the power to place them there with us. If divine contemplation is sufficient, then it is enough that they continue to exist as exemplars in the mind of God. While there is something of personal opinion in this posting, it is not an uneducated argument I offer. The Church does not teach that animals have immortal souls. Animal souls or substantial forms are not the same as human souls. As for having a dog, my ministry would cause me to neglect such an animal, and the poor things are rather needy for attention. However, my past family experience was filled with animals. We had dogs: Ceasar, Josephine, Orio, and a couple others. We had cats, dozens of them, and I own a cat right now… so mean that no one else will have her. As a little boy we had Molly, a sweet horse who used to take us in our cart to church and to the store. Now, there was an animal… but only an animal.

Do you not salivate when you see a piece of meat that could satisfy your hunger? Who knows what Fido dreams about, but I’m sure it is less sinful than what most humans dream.

FATHER JOE: There are good and bad dogs. But dogs cannot sin. Cats on the other hand….

Dogs do have awareness like humans. They do feel emotions like humans. They feel pain the same way humans do. They are smarter than most humans, so why think that dogs do not have a soul?

FATHER JOE: Emotions are a matter of chemistry. You are subjectively allowing sentiment to override your judgment about animal awareness. It is a matter of biology and pain receptors. Animals can know pain, but that assertion is a long way from saying that it is on the same level with humanity. Cows are smart and can feel pain– pigs are smarter than dogs– and while dogs are a delicacy in some places, we routinely eat cows and pigs. If animals were the same as us, you would have to become a vegetarian… are you?

I don’t think comparing a dog to an ant has any relevence. I had a lab that recently passed away with liver cancer. I also have a small beagle mix that stayed by his side as he passed. My beagle often lays on his grave and shows depression, loss, and other human like emotions for the loss of her partner. There has been scientific study on wolves and the loss of a fellow wolf in a pack. Wolves have shown the same type of grief, as a human does, for the loss of a mate for up to six months. Scientists have proven that animals do show emotion and share emotions just as humans do. I could speculate that primates are the same.

FATHER JOE: Loss and grief are not entirely properties of the soul. But unless you can get into the head of an animal, you cannot prove that it is identical with the human experience. I suspect that you are reading human attributes into your animals.

No one can be certain who goes to heaven or hell in the end. The bible can be interpreted in many different ways. I think anyone can make speculations on who and what will go to heaven. I’m not going to be the one to judge and say yes or no, but I will say that anything so pure and kind, as most animals, would be a great addition to heaven. I’m not saying that you are wrong, but maybe you need a dog to realize what we are going through when we lose a friend. Then maybe you won’t be so cruel to assume that a dog is here on earth as just a being. I think maybe you ought to open up your heart and see that there is enough love for other forms of life. Maybe not the same love as we have for God , but God has given us the ability to love….why not spread it around? Why compare a man’s best friend to an ant. By the way…..I wouldn’t eat nor torture my best friend the way some people do.

FATHER JOE: First, the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, in concert with biblical exegetes and theologians can offer authentic interpretations of Scripture. Second, while we would not seek to judge the souls of men, the Church can make statements about Christian anthropology and creation. Third, animals are given to us for our use (not the other way around) and we should be good stewards. Dogs tend sheep and offer protection. Cats eat mice and other vermin… sorry Mickey Mouse! Horses provide transportation. But, just as Spot might eat the pet rabbits which belong to the little girl next door, animals are also for our eating. Is it only okay to eat those animals without human friends? That seems rather arbitrary. We learned quickly on the farm, never give your supper a name. Momma had a pet chicken that used to follow her around. She named him. One day Uncle Will chopped off his head and Grandma cooked him. No one could eat him… even though the HIM was an IT.
on June 11, 2009 at 8:57 pm Patsy

Father Joe, a great topic for discussion!
My deceased uncle was a priest in the Cleveland, OH diocese, who entered into Eternal Life in 1995. Almost 50 years a priest, and often referred to by his parishioners and friends as a “priest’s priest,” I really do miss the long and frequent and intriguing deep diologues we had on theology, the sacred mysteries and our joint love of our Catholic faith.
My uncle had a champion bulldog, who was a true buddy and companion in the 11 years before he entered a nursing home for reasons of health. I’ll never forget Easter Sunday morning when he called our house, and I answered the phone, only to hear him crying, “Patsy… my boy died!!” Oh, it broke my heart to hear and share his grief on such a happy feast day!! Then, I asked… “Father, what do YOU think… do you think Our Lord will allow our dogs to be in Heaven with us someday?”
My uncle often told me of the wonderful priest-teachers in the seminary he had, who really did a great job in his priestly formation. Such formation was evident in his response to me, which I’ll never forget…
“Patsy, you could never imagine Heaven without flowers, can you?” To that, I could only say, “No, Father: after all, Our Lady of Lourdes appeared to Bernadette with golden roses on her feet, and we all heard of the “odor of sanctity,” Our Lady’s Rosary, St. Therese and the Roses, the Lily of the Valley in the Song of Songs, the odor of perfume like flowers that emits from holy people (and their spirits) like Padre Pio, etc.” To which he added wisely, “well, in the order of creation, God created animals above plants, so I believe BOTH will be in Heaven. Not only that, we’re told in the Book of Revelation (?) that ‘The Lion shall lay down with the lamb.’ I couldn’t agree more!
I can only hope my uncle “Father John” is now at home in Heaven with his beloved “Che” – and that someday I’ll have my flatcoat retriever Jiggs and three golden retrievers Erin, Shannon and Bridie, also with me. :) If not, I leave all that to God, only to be grateful for the many years of joy and companionship (and a bit of a glimpse as to the love of God may be like!) that God permitted in my life, a sign of his love for me! :)
on June 29, 2009 at 5:32 pm Jim

I think this question can be looked at from another perspective. How are we humans held in existence? Isn’t it through a constant emanation of God’s love. This is our route to immortality since we are draw to the eternal source of that love unless we willfully choose to reject it. Assuming we accept God’s offer of love, we will end up in heaven. This is a relational philosophy of love. We in turn can establish a relationship of love with those we hold dear. This extends to the animals we have loved. We continue to love them after their death and as long as we exist. This locks them in a relationship of love and grants them a sort of indirect immortality. God values the love of all His creatures and understands that many people cannot be totally happy in eternity without the pets they have cherished in life. It is only logical, therefore, that He would permit the love He freely gives to humans to flow through them to their pets and maintain them in existence through all eternity.

FATHER JOE:

We are dependent upon God for our existence. I am not sure I would categorize that as an emanation of love. We are created from nothing. We are distinct from the Creator, not expressions or facets of the divine or necessary effects like the light that illuminates from the sun. Certainly, God loves us and he creates us to share in his life and to enter into the divine love.

I cannot say if there are animals in heaven. It might simply be enough to love and gaze upon God directly. That should satisfy the soul. We were made for God, not for Scruffy or Kitty.
on June 29, 2009 at 11:08 pm Patricia

When pondering this question of animals and heaven, I think about God’s eternal existence. It seems to me that all that has ever been and ever will be is always present to Him — since He is not limited by time.

FATHER JOE: The paradigm or substantial form of animals exists from all eternity in the divine mind. Nothing is lost. Thus, while we have a distinct identity, that of animals is suitably found in the richness of God. We will not miss the animals because God will totally satisfy our longing. However, if God wanted animals to populate heaven with us, he could do so, even if unlikely. I just do not see any necessity for it. And I have a cat, so I know the value of pets. She is a bad cat. I would suspect termination with the grave is better for her than a cat hell, am I right? I also like hamburgers. But, I do not want to see my reconstituted supper mooing at me in paradise either.

When we go to heaven and are united with God, sharing in His Divine Life, it seems to me that we too will possess this eternal vision (and through it be present in some way to our beloved pets.)

I know that God loves His creation far more than we could ever love it — including our little pets. The fact that these innocent animals have brought great joy and affection and even a type of love to His children seems to me to be God’s purpose for their existence. I do not understand why they would be excluded from being “accidental” source of happiness in heaven.

FATHER JOE: It is because we were made for God. The Church leaves the question open, but I suspect you are making heaven too earthly. Why should God want to distract us as a community from the beatific vision?

I think the big problem arises when we assume that animals must have a soul like our own in order to be present in heaven. That can never be. They are not made in the image and likeness of God, and are not partakers of Divine Life. But they do reflect the beauty and goodness of God. It seems odd to me that our loving Father would forever extinguish any life which came forth from His hands, with the final annihilation of an animal, or even a flower.

FATHER JOE: Material creation is inherently limited, both spacially and temporally. We believe that God has made an exception with mankind because we have one leg in both worlds, the spiritual and the mortal.

For me, there is also the problem of the great injustice done to animals, when they are not used as God intended, ie., food, companionship, work, etc. Sadly, innumerable animals are tortured and abused in horrible ways by cruel and malicious persons. I sometimes wonder how God, in His perfect justice, will reconcile these crimes against innocent and helpless creatures.

FATHER JOE: We do not judge animals as persons. We should not torment them. Those raised for food should be raised and dispatched with suitable respect and concern about pain. Even our Lord ate animals. They are closer to things or objects than to subjects like ourselves.

It seems we can never know for sure the eternal fate of our beloved pets, until we ourselves get to heaven. But it seems to me that God would not be offended if we hope for everything from His Love.

FATHER JOE: God might not be offended, unless we place created things above the Creator. That would be a real problem. We can believe what we want, that does not make it true.

He understands our hearts, and knows how much comfort we find in the pets and other animals He has created for us.

Of one thing we can be sure, no matter what the truth about our pets turns out to be, our happiness in being united to the One Who is Love will lack nothing, and be beyond our wildest imaginings!
on June 29, 2009 at 11:39 pm Michael

lol. Good response Father.

If/when I get to Heaven, my first inclination probably won’t be to look for Rin Tin Tin, Mr Ed, Lassie, or even Jumbo the elephant.

I don’t think that Heaven is gonna look like the inside of Noah’s ark…..nor smell like it.

I think that it will be full of people looking for us.
on June 30, 2009 at 9:36 pm Lady Godless

What about the Christmas animals?

The holiday displays outside of churches suggest that Christians believe that a group of animals — a cow, a donkey, and two or three sheep — personally witnessed the birth of Jesus.

Are the original Christmas animals preserved in the afterlife, or have they been consigned to oblivion with all the other animals?

FATHER JOE: Madalen, Madalen, you’re just teasing us poor crazy people. And anyway, you forgot the holy spider of Loretto.
on June 30, 2009 at 11:34 pm Patricia

Father Joe, I enjoyed your insights very much. No reconstituted hamburgers in heaven? I suppose no chickens scratching streets of gold with formerly fried drumsticks either?

Hmm, it does get a little complex when you think about it that way. You really made me laugh.

I’m just such a softy about animals. In fact, I love thinking about the joy God must have felt (okay, I know He doesn’t have emotions, but you know what I mean) when He created all the many species of animals.

I’m very grateful for my sweet and affectionate cat who is funny and playful and lots of company when no one else is around.

As for your cat, have you tried holy water? Pet purgatory could be a whole new topic here.

Like Michael, I won’t be looking for Mr. Ed, etc., but I haven’t completely ruled out Lassie…….

I think it’s interesting and fun to speculate about what heaven will really be like, as long as it doesn’t violate Church teaching.

Here on earth I find heaven in our Adoration Chapel, where there are no animals, or even flowers. Yet sometimes I think if I could stay there forever, it would be paradise enough.

God bless you Father Joe. I’ll be praying for you during this awesome Year of the Priest.

FATHER JOE: Holy water… hum, the cat leaves water of its own in various spots, just for spite. She even bit the pet psychologist on the nose.
on June 30, 2009 at 11:40 pm Patricia

Michael,

Don’t rule out Noah’s Ark yet. I don’t think they’ve found it down here. Could be fun!
on July 16, 2009 at 2:21 am Daniel948398

father joe my dog died 3 days ago and i loved him and i will always love him and ill never forget him. do you think we will meet in heaven?

FATHER JOE: I don’t know. Are you sure you are going to heaven?
on July 16, 2009 at 2:24 am Daniel948398

please tell me what you really think and please answer also this question: do you go to heaven if when you die they burn your body?

FATHER JOE: Cremation has no effect whatsoever on our status in the afterlife. Given sufficient time and exposure, all that was earthly returns to the basic material elements.

“We commit his/her body to the earth, for we are dust and unto dust we shall return.”–funeral rites
on July 16, 2009 at 8:04 am Father Joe

My emphasis and concern is about human beings going to heaven. That is a complex question all by itself.

As a believer within the community of the Church, I place my faith in Jesus Christ and seek to reflect his love in holy obedience. I trust in his promise for a share in eternal life. I am not sure what provision God has made for animals outside his human creation.

Those who are dubious about a human afterlife might find arguments for animals as fodder for easy mockery. Will we be outnumbered by mosquitoes and roaches? Will every hamburger and hotdog be pointing an accusing finger at us? If PETA operates heaven, I would think a lot of us are going to find ourselves locked outside the gates.

Further, if animals can enter heaven then would bad ones likewise go to hell? Recently, a neighbor of my mother’s had two pitbulls jump the fence and maul some people in another yard. Both animals had to be shot. Their owner had raised them to be vicious, but does that entirely mitigate their guilt, if animals can be guilty?

Some might contend that God is selective about the animals he allows into heaven. Dogs, doves and butterflies might populate heaven while hell is filled to overflowing with cats, bats and ticks. Okay, now I am being funny, but it is all to say that we just do not know. Might God include only the animals we love? I cannot say.

Again, I am preoccupied enough with my own salvation, and trying to help a few “human” friends to come along with me.

God bless!
on July 16, 2009 at 12:41 pm Lady Godless

Father Joe said: “…I am preoccupied enough with my own salvation, and trying to help a few “human” friends to come along with me.”

What is that like — being preoccupied with your salvation?

FATHER JOE: Emotionally I seek to surrender any anxiety to God. But I still often wonder if I love others as I should? Am I the priest that our Lord intended me to be for his people? Facing certain health concerns can also force a deeper appreciation of our mortality and a personal introspection about beliefs and hopes.
on July 16, 2009 at 9:54 pm Michael

Hey Madalen!
How are you? Sorry that I haven’t been around lately and I’m very happy that you still visit with Fr.Joe.

I’ve been on a missionary journey in a large town called Facebook, USA. within recent months. I’ve been called a zealot, a freak, a dummie, a phony, a loser….you name it.
I am honored!

Fr. Joe, Yes to both of your questions.

Laudetur Jesus Christus!

PAX, Michael
on July 17, 2009 at 11:03 am Bob

The REAL question is: What’s the difference between a duck?
on July 17, 2009 at 11:56 am PeeWee

I just happened to read your post and comments and I feel compelled to say something.

You are a real jerk!

People are hurting about their lost pets and you tell them that it is too bad and that they will never see them again. How could you? Where is your compassion?

Then you slam PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS!

You are just too much!

You joke about eating animals and encountering them in heaven. However, reading other posts, you seem to take seriously that women who have had abortions will encounter dead children (if they were really children) in the afterlife.

You cannot have it both ways.

A loyal pet like a dog has more personality than a fetus or embryo and yet you would deny eternal life to the former but argue it for the latter.

That is contradictory. Bigotry against animals is a type of racism or prejudice.

Cows, pigs, birds, you name it probably have souls. They answer when you call. They grieve when they are separated from family. They suffer pain and alienation.

We torture and murder animals. We eat them, which is the ultimate denial of their intrinsic personhood and value.

For your readers, you cannot posit your dog or cat in heaven unless you are also going to make provision for other animals. Yes, I think that creatures like cows, pigs, dolphins, whales, seals, elephants, tigers, chickens, and yes even your much maligned cat will be there in paradise.

Indeed, the animals may outnumber us because they are innocent.

Even the most vicious dog is only so because human beings have wrongly abused and trained him.

May I make a suggestion?

You have everything backwards. There is a heaven. But, it is an animal heaven. They might allow a few humans inside the gates, but probably most meat-lovers and mean-spirited people like you go to hell.

Yes, you got me right. Heaven is for animals. Hell is for humans.

There, I have said my piece.
on July 17, 2009 at 4:15 pm Dan

PeeWee you are a real jerk…. People are hurting about their lost spouses, friends, children…. & you say they go to hell!

What do you say about the doggy soul of a dog that killed a child?

What about the soul of the chicken whose bone choked grandma to death?

Finally, I just like to bring to your attention that I’ve never met a malicious vegetable of any kind…. Why would you want to leave (or is it leaf?) out plants from heaven?
on July 17, 2009 at 5:31 pm PeeWee

If a dog kills anyone, it is the fault of humans who have abused it and trained it to be a killer.

Some of us feel that the eating of animals is a form of cannibalism. Animals are our brothers and sisters. You don’t want to accept this because you like to eat meat. If I served you the roasted flesh of a man, not telling you the source, you would mistake it for pork.

Anti-abortion proponents often claim there can be no exceptions. If the embryo or fetus is a human person then I could respect their reasoning. But I believe that animals have personal identity, too. They are conscious and express emotions. They can dream. They might not be able to speak our languages or have opposible thumbs, but they can communicate with their own and have abilities we do not possess. You cannot plead for a cat or dog without protecting the rights of all creatures.

Americans get upset when they travel to Asia and get served the so-called delicacy of dog or go to Latin America and find a big rat on their plate. It is monstrous, but no more so than you eating a ham sandwich or your chicken fingers!

Animals go to heaven or there is no justice!
on July 18, 2009 at 12:20 am Michael

No one said that animals don’t go to heaven, but human beings are created with immortal souls.

Humans were made for God and animals were made for humans. I understand that people are closely attached to their pets and there is nothing wrong with that.
It’s too bad that people don’t give as much attention to the neglected elderly and to the infants (born and unborn) as they do to their pets.

If God loves man the most, and He does, then why shouldn’t we put each other above the animals? Aren’t we worth more than the birds of the air? He says that we are.

Think of poor Terri Schindler Schiavo who was murdered. Didn’t she have a God-given right to live and to be fed and hydrated even though she was ill?
If anyone starves an animal to death they would surely end up in jail wouldn’t they?
Where’s the priority?

To be honest, I really could care less about whether or not my deceased pets are occupying heaven. I am more concerned about making it there myself so that I can spend my eternity with God and my relatives who went before me.

Pax, Michael
on July 18, 2009 at 8:56 am PeeWee

Do you not see your inconsistency?

Many anti-abortion proponents in the Catholic Church became angry years ago with the late Cardinal Bernardine. He argued for a consistent ethic of life which he called “the seamless garment”. What this meant was one was not truly “prolife” if one was against abortion but for the death penalty, or euthanasia, or opposed welfare reform and health care, or discriminated against the rights of migrant workers, believed in pre-emptive war, etc. He argued that life had to be protected on all fronts. However, and this is where he got into trouble, groups used his idea to create a checklist to rate politicians and others. Thus, a person like Senator Kennedy might be pro-Choice, but he rated high on other indicators like the needs of the poor and healthcare. Measured by such an analysis, Kennedy, Kerry, Clinton and now Obama would be some of the most prolife people around. This was recently recognized by Kathleen Townsend Kennedy in a NEWSWEEK article where she claims Obama is more Catholic and in sync with American Catholics than the Pope.

I am not saying any of this is right. I am just trying to draw your attention to something you don’t want to see. You can say that you are prolife, but by killing and eating animals, you are really part of the problem. The culture of death is not something new but goes back to the most ancient of days. If you believe in progressive revelation as in the case of slavery and its eradication; then you should see something for the PETA case in favor of the rest of the animal kingdom, of which we are a part. We do not stand over the animals of creation. We are part of this family.

It is time for Christians, Jews and others to adopt a vegetarian lifestyle. If you think your dog or cat will join you in heaven, you have no choice about this. Eating animals is a betrayal of the trust you have with them.

Wake up!

You could not care less?

There is the sting of it, and the first truth you have spoken.
on July 18, 2009 at 10:20 am Father Joe

There is a scene in the old movie “The Fly” that comes to mind when the fly with a man’s head is caught in a spider web. If all creatures have rights, then would that include bugs. PETA has made a laughing stock of itself by decrying President Obama’s killing a pesty house fly. I cannot believe how far this thread has gone. I tolerate it for comedic value.
on July 18, 2009 at 10:31 am Gentleman Godless

Christians say the darndest things!
on July 18, 2009 at 10:50 am PeeWee

You make me cry!

How can you all be so nasty and mean?
on July 18, 2009 at 10:56 am Devil Kat

Cats too?

Cats in hell… with us?
on July 18, 2009 at 11:43 am Gentleman Godless

Does it really matter?
on July 18, 2009 at 1:53 pm Dan

If animals have souls and go to heaven, are they tempted by little animal devils? Do doggy devils look like cats? Can animal souls get into heaven without baptism? Also, what about unicellular creatures? At what point in cell division would the new individual become ensouled?

Since I have bacteria and parasites in my body, is my body a kind of heaven already?
on July 18, 2009 at 10:52 pm Michael

What?????
Why waste your thoughts on such nonsense.
Most people are concerned about themselves getting to heaven, let alone spot and tinkerbell.

Poeple who aren’t concerned about getting to heaven are reprobates.

The First commandment:
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
Do not have any other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

A pet deceased or not, can be considered an idol IF it takes the place of God in a person’s life.
on July 19, 2009 at 3:34 pm Lady Godless

Heh. Shouldn’t my male counterpart be “Lord Godless”?
on July 19, 2009 at 4:22 pm Lady Godless

Father Joe, thanks for explaining. I was under the impression that being preoccupied w/ ones salvation meant something different.

Re the Spider of Loretto, I can’t believe I wasted all that time trying to find out what that was. You just made it up!

@ Michael… (Hi, Michael!) You say that you’ve “… been on a missionary journey in a large town called Facebook, USA. within recent months. I’ve been called a zealot, a freak, a dummie, a phony, a loser….you name it. … I am honored!”

Is that the kind of response that you were looking for?
on July 19, 2009 at 7:14 pm Father Joe

LG Madalen,

I did not make up the spider reference…

Years ago I visited a small grotto at St. Francis University in Loretto, PA, entitled THE HOLY SPIDER OF LORETTO. There was a wire mesh made to look like spider web, a little fake spider hanging from a thread, and a statue of the Holy Family taking refuge behind it.

It is a legend or folktale, nothing doctrinal or strictly historical. The story goes that the Holy Family had fled and were hiding from Herod’s soldiers. The web was elaborate and unbroken. The soldiers thus presumed that no one could be on the other side. The child was thus saved.

http://disciplesnow.faithstreams.com/Home/Catholic/TopicView/tabid/20513/type/view/content/e3b9bd8d-1ba8-4a54-b658-febe47a04992/Default.aspx

Peace!
on July 19, 2009 at 7:36 pm Gentleman Godless

Haha Lady Godless, but “Lord Godless” would never do, too much an oxymoron.
on July 19, 2009 at 7:56 pm Janine

Hey Michael

If you care to please share your facebook name with me. My email is stillwaters56@yahoo.com -
on July 19, 2009 at 9:38 pm Michael

Hello Lady Godless,
To answer your question….not really. To be honest, I guess that I expect people to be dignified and kind because I try to be.
I admit that I am still somewhat naive and I also try to live and think as though everyone is madly in love with everyone else as if we were already in paradise. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.

I thank God that I am a thicked skinned 100% Italian who has become immuned to harsh criticisms from an early age. I went to Catholic school for all twelve years and was exposed to all kinds of defamatory names directed toward me based on my ethnicity. Not every Italian is slow, without papers, or in the mafia. Being called a zealot, a freak, a dummie, a phony, and a loser because of my Catholic faith doesn’t bother me. It simply lets me know who the bad eggs are and who I need to
defriend, ignore, or hide. Jesus told His disciples: “if the world hates you it’s because it hated me first, but fear not. I have overcome the world.”

I have a good amount of FB friends because we share common interests and concerns.

Oh, something I need to mention. You and I would both be lost without the copy and paste functions on our computers.

Have good night.
on August 11, 2009 at 6:57 pm Justin

Hey everyone, to those who lost your pets and are really on the the fence about whether or not youll see them again i have a real good website I found that gave me comfort- http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/answers/animals/pets.html. I just lost my best friend/brother/pet Kane yesterday, he had bone cancer and a broken leg so i had the vet come to house to put him down, he was part of my life through have of it, and i feel all of you who have lost your pets.
Revelation 5:8-13 states, all creatures recognize Jesus as the Savior of the world and praise God right along with redeemed men.
In Psalm 145:-9-10, 13,15-21 states God loves all his creation and has made plans for all his children and the lesser creatures to enjoy his eternal Kingdom(look up definition of everyone)
Romans 19 states that All creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are.
Hope this helps you all find victory over your curent greif
Father Joe It would be interesting and welcoming to hear your thoughts on this.

FATHER JOE: When I tried the link, the site above was down. I suspect it comes from a fundamentalist perspective. The Bible uses earthly imagery we can appreciate when speaking about heaven. However, I suspect everything said falls far short of the reality. Are there animals in heaven? I suppose you are free to believe so, but as far as I know, the Catholic Church has no definitive or required answer which we must hold. My personal view would not be popular with many who have lost beloved pets. I do not believe animals have immortal souls. My opinion is that each species only continues to exist as a substantial form in the all-knowing divine mind. It is possible that God could still populate his heaven with special remnants of material creation, given that human souls will be reunited with their bodies; but, I do not know. There are stories about ghostly animals such as dog and cat spirits. But such is usually linked to the occult. Indeed, they might be demonic manifestations. Heaven is about the beatific vision. Heaven is where God is. We were made for God. I suspect we will no more lament lost pets than we would the souls of friends and family members in hell. The perfect joy of heaven will not allow for sorrow. God’s presence will fulfill our longings and make us complete. All the love we had for his creation, the world around us now and his creatures, will be totally transferred to the Creator, himself. There will be no more intermediaries. Even the sacraments will pass away and we will see face-to-face that Mystery which we celebrate behind sacred signs.
on August 12, 2009 at 7:49 pm Janine

Fr. Joe

Very well put. I have wondered about how we would feel if loved ones did not make it into Heaven with us? You are correct, we simply would not care because we would be in perfect happiness with God our Creator.

It is just our own human way of thinking in this present world that makes us so very sad at the thought that our parents, children, friends and beloved pets may not be joining us in heaven. Somehow God will make all things right and perfect –there is no room for any negativity or sadness at all.
on August 12, 2009 at 9:13 pm Lady Godless

Father Joe said: “I suspect we will no more lament lost pets than we would the souls of friends and family members in hell.”

No. Real love and loyalty are part of a person, and they last as long as the person does. They don’t change.

If you get to heaven and find that you couldn’t care less about your loved ones in hell, then ~you~ haven’t gone to heaven at all. The being that has taken your place is just a simulacrum of you, which has somehow come to possess a fragment of your consciousness. The being acting in your stead might ~feel~ like it is you, but it isn’t really — just as deja vu feels like reliving events that haven’t actually happened before.

FATHER JOE: Goodness, where do you get this stuff? What I am talking about is divine preoccupation and the overarching satisfaction of the beatific vision. A person is made whole or complete. I disagreed with another priest who claimed that the saints do not remember the damned. I do not believe in heavenly amnesia. But it would not cause lasting distress. Such would also contradict the meaning of paradise. We were made for God. As a priest, that says it all. The damned were not so much sentenced as they chose their lot. I cannot say who is in hell. I pray that the devil is lonely, as the late Frank Sheed suggested. They get what they want even if it seems terrible to me. Hell is hatred toward and alienation from God. It is not so much the result of the antithesis of faith as it is an empty and frustrating faith in something else– that I matter more than you and that some do not matter at all. They create their chains in this life and hell simply provides the cell where they can lock everyone else out, forever. This causes me sadness now. But can I stay sad forever, knowing that we were all given freedom to respond to God’s call one way or the other? Ah, this is just an important aside, from the topic having minimal significance, which is, is there a bone for Rover to chew on in heaven? Huh? But who might the bone be?
on August 14, 2009 at 6:24 pm dennis teel

in genesis,god breathed the breath of life into man and man became a living being..the breath of life being the soul…the animals went into the ark 2 by two.. and it says.. they went in..it also says what?/ they each had the breath of life in them,..each animal had the same breath of life that was breated into man..unless there;s two different breaths of life…land animals apparently go to heaven

FATHER JOE: Actually, the breath of life simply means that God gave them existence. The early Jews did not really speak much about an afterlife. We should not be fundamentalists on this question. The text is straight-forward. Living creatures breathe, rocks and dead people do not.
on August 17, 2009 at 2:35 pm Bob

But … but … what would Heaven be like without platypuseseses?
on September 18, 2009 at 2:06 pm Sean

Asking whether or not pets go to heaven is like asking if the tooth fairy comes and takes their teeth away when they fall out.

FATHER JOE: Huh? The question of an afterlife (particularly for human beings) is a serious one, which believers affirm and intelligent philosophers regard as a legitimate area for reflection and speculation.
on September 19, 2009 at 4:34 pm edward

Fr. Joe
You seem to be (at least to me) a sterile personality waiting to bask in immortality to at last have something to love.

It may be a good thing that we lower humans are not as well versed in Theology as thou art.

Enjoyed the site and am particularly glad that at least you and Michael are sure of your destinies.

God bless.
Ed

FATHER JOE: Can you judge my personality while not really knowing me? Do you have the gift of reading souls? You presume more than is healthy for your own soul. I have no notion what you mean by “lower humans” as I count myself as only a servant of God and his people. Hopefully, I echo what the Church teaches and not the dissent which arises from the hubris and pride of so many critics today. As for my eternal destiny, like all good Catholics, I place that into the hands of God. I live in the sure and certain HOPE of salvation in Christ. I pray to be contrite and to persevere to the end.
on September 27, 2009 at 4:16 pm Dan

Gosh ed I hopest that thou dost not use leather for your belts, or shoeses. At leastest the Catholic Church loves humans to the point of actually being against abortion. Perhapeth whenst that problem is solved, the Church will turn it’s attention to chickens and pets.
on October 2, 2009 at 5:44 am Bopit Gregorio

Many people will not understand how people with dogs, or cats , or any other pet, feel when they depart.. i don’t feel bad about how they think and feel.. in fact i pity them.. they will never feel and experience the bond that exist between two individual regardless of difference of how they are born here on earth.. though I’m not sure on what or how life is after death.. i do believe and know that everything has a purpose.. for the question of do dogs go to heaven?!, well i really don,t know.. but i do know and feel that, again, we will meet, maybe not as a human and as a dog, but two spirits that share an unbreakable bond that can never be undone..

FATHER JOE: You are entitled to your opinion. I have mine. I have a cat. My family had dogs, cats, chickens, ducks, rabbits, turtles, frogs, and assortment of birds, etc. All except the chickens were pets. I had affection for some of them, and they showed a bond with me. But I do not anticipate seeing any of them in heaven. I do hope to see God and his angels and saints.
on October 2, 2009 at 6:30 pm Bopit Gregorio

Thank you for the reply father. I really felt bad when i lost my beloved pet, she died sept 30, 2009. Every time i think of her i really cant breath, or should i say i really cant explain how i feel. I’m speaking based on my experience on how God works in my life. He has the strangest ways of showing me what i needed to see, but always, in the end everything works out. I’m am not worried if i would still see my pet or not.. i would say i have faith.. though we have different opinion, somehow i like reading your posts, thank you father Joe.

FATHER JOE:

The loss of a pet touches our emotions. Rational arguments may not be all that helpful in dealing with the grieving. I would never dismiss someone’s pain about such things.

Speaking more from the head, the love for a pet is reflective of the goodness of God’s material creation. Animals can be very faithful companions. It reminds us of a harmony in nature which was lost and for which we yearn. I only have my opinion about animals although the faith assures us that people survive beyond the grave. Could animals continue to exist as extensions of the human experience? Certainly, God forgets nothing and no one. Is it enough that plants and animals exist in the divine mind?
on October 3, 2009 at 7:19 am Deb

I believe God will give you what you need. In “Time-Life” there was an article where a girl with leukemia lost her 2 cats in a fire, later when she went out of remission, she was failing and not talking/communcating anymore. Like many patients, right before she died, she seemed alert and looked beyond her parents and said, “Smokey” (might not remember name correctly) one of her cats names and smiled.
I would like to believe being young and without any relatives gone, she saw her cats.
Sadly a year later, her parents were involved in a head-on collision and died about the aniversary of her death. The author also wanted to believe the whole family reunited in heaven.

Mother Angelica’s mom had a very similar experience before she died, looking beyond her to what Mother thought was her deceased Dad, making peace with him before she died.
There are many mysteries in life, way beyond our understanding. If it gives peace to someone to beleive they may see their pets, so be it. God knows best and either way they wont care later.
on October 22, 2009 at 6:03 am Bopit Gregorio

http://www.goveg.com/f-popejohnpaulii.asp

Thanks..
on November 14, 2009 at 8:06 pm Shannon

God is all knowing and all powerful. I certainly hope that my animals can be with me in Heaven, but I surrender myself to God and his will. If it is his will that animals be brought to Heaven and that they experience true happiness, then I rejoice. If it is not his will, then I am sad. But I am only sad while here on Earth, for I know in my heart that in heaven there is no sadness. You must have faith in God, regardless if animals are present in heaven or not. He has said that he shall wipe all tears from my eyes, and that I shall long for nothing. The thought of not having my dogs with me in heaven is a terrible feeling, but it is a feeling that God will free us from. Saying that you would refuse entering into Heaven if our animals are not there is the opposite of faith. By saying that, you are telling God that you do not trust him to heal your soul, and to wipe away your pains. You are saying that you do not have faith in him to do this or the faith that he can do this. God is all knowing and all powerful. No one in heaven will ever experience pain or sadness of any kind, at any time, forever and ever. I still hope that my animals will be by my side in Heaven, because I love them very much. Having said this, I surrender myself to God, knowing that I shall never hurt again if so accepted into Heaven, and I am grateful for the opportunity he has given me.
on November 17, 2009 at 10:42 pm Jim

There is a curious story about a big grey dog that is intimately associated with the ministry of St. John Bosco. The area in Italy where St. John Bosco worked was infested with people who hated the Church and his work. Some of these were Waldensians and some were practicing Satanists. In any event, they were constantly trying to kill him.

The only thing thst prevented their success was a mysterious dog. Some said the dog was an angel but he never talked but just growled and bit the evil doers. If God had sent an angel to protect St. John Bosco why did he not appear as a man and frighten off the attackers. One is tempted to think that dogs exist in heaven and one was dispatched to do what came naturally to a big brave dog.

Here is a description of the dog’s activities taken from “All About the Angels” by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan, O.P, published by Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.

“When returning home one night through a bad and dangerous part of the town, he saw a magnificent dog of huge size following him. At first he was frightened but quickly came to see that the dog was friendly. The animal walked by his side and accompanied him to the door of his house and then went away. This happened five, six or eight times. He called the dog Grigio.

What did it mean? He was soon to learn.

Hastening home by himself, some time after the first appearance of the dog, two shots were fired at him by an assassin from behind a tree. Both shots missed their mark, but his assailant then rushed at and grappled with him. At that moment, Grigio appeared and sank his teeth into the flesh of the would-be murderer, who fled away shrieking with pain.

On a second occasion, two men lay in wait for him and threw a sack over his head. This time it seemed all was over with him, but Grigio unexpectedly came to his rescue and jumped at one of the ruffians, seizing him by the throat. The other fled in terror. Don Bosco had then to liberate the first from the fangs of Grigio, who still held him by the throat.

A third time, no less than twelve hired assassins, armed with clubs, lay in ambush, into which Don Bosco walked unawares. Again, escape seemed impossible, but once more Grigio bounded into the midst of the group, and his fierce look and savage growl proved enough. The men made off as quickly as they could.

Sometimes the dog entered Don Bosco’s house, but always with some reason, either to accompany him on a night journey or to prevent his leaving the house. No amount of animal instinct could explain these unexpected appearances of the dog.

On one of these occasions, when Don Bosco tried to go out, the great dog lay across the door and growled in such a menacing way that St. John was forced to remain at home. And it was well that he did so, for shortly afterwards a gentleman arrived to warn him not to leave the house on any consideration, as the heretics lay in wait to kill him.”
on December 7, 2009 at 11:34 am Bob

When “everything is made anew,” and when our souls are reinfused into our glorified bodies and we occupy the new heaven and the new earth, it seems to me that we won’t be the only creatures living there; “… the lion shall lie down with the lamb, and the child will put his hand in the adder’s lair …”
on December 19, 2009 at 12:51 pm Ronan Coghlan

With regard to survival of animals after Death:-

(a) There may be different kinds of animal soul according to species. Some may survive, some are not sufficiently developed that they need survival.

(b) When at school (traditional Irish Catholic education) we were told by the priest that that animals didn’t go to heaven was the general opinion, but gave us to understand it was not de fide.

(c) A schoolfriend pointed out that he believed animals survived because animals suffer and a benign God would not let them do so without compensation.

(d) It is doubtful if certain primitive animals are sufficiently developed to suffer, in which case such compensation would not be a necessary justice.

(e) People desiring a beloved pet to be in heaven are no more idolatrous than people who say they could not be happy unless their kith and kin are there. (They could, but that’s another matter). Then again, some might say they couldn’t be happy if certain of their kith and kin were there.

(f) I feel that certain species have immortal souls, but not the same sort of immortal souls that humans have. They would not, for example, have a sense of morality. A dog will loyally defend its master, but not ask whether its master is right or wrong in the conflict. Because they are not moral beings, what their status would be after death I cannot surmise. But a creature with no concept of morality would not deserve punishment, while it might merit reward for suffering undergone (but not for virue).

(g) Cats are not hellworthy. I know of an actual cat that sacrificed itself to save a baby in the household by attacking an intruding wolf. The only trouble is, so many of us think cats ought to behave like dogs. When they don’t, we rather illiogically blame them.

FATHER JOE: I have made my views known. This is all curious speculation. I appreciate the thoughts. As for cats, when I spoke about them patroling the outer boundaries of hell, I had one particular one in mind, my own. Of course, even that is in jest. If cats did survive the grave I suspect that my cat would bite Jesus. As I said, she is worthy of horns, already having the pointed teeth and tail.
on February 12, 2010 at 10:36 pm Mandal Haas

I believe that dogs do have a spirit…an essence…a life spark…a soul..different religions define the life force differently.

FATHER JOE: Yes, differing religions define the soul in various ways although some like the SDA deny the soul entirely. However, what should I care as a Catholic what false religions should say about this question?

It is interesting to read the argument and the debate here. With all due respect, Father Joe’s interpretation of the Catholic doctrine and commentary thereof in regard to the existence of lack thereof of a dog’s soul is much like a lawyer interpreting the law….not all lawyers reach the same interpretation and application of fixed law….if they did we wouldn’t need judges to settle disputes and different interpreations of the law now would we?

FATHER JOE: No, my explanation tries to respect the truths of Catholic teaching on this point. We must be wary of any relativistic approach which strips truth of its objective quality and plunges us into the error of religious indifferentism. The question about animal souls is somewhat speculative but no answer can be given which conflicts with Christian anthropology. We should try to give a reasoned answer to such questions without collapsing everything under human sentiment. If animals do not have individuated immortal souls, no wrangling of posters on a blog or lawyers in a courtroom will make it any different.

I cannot believe that God would have created all the animals in the world without having some plan for their existence after death. Why would he have went to the trouble of having Noah preserve two of each species if he didn’t have future plans for animals and value their existence?

FATHER JOE: Just because you cannot understand it is a poor argument for positing souls in animals. There are many things we do not fully comprehend. The mythic nature of Noah aside, there are many species of animals which have not survived and are now extinct. Maybe they served their purpose in the eventual emergence of mankind, into which God infused immortal souls? Animals can give us company and comfort. They can also be delicious on the dinner table. While I will miss such satisfaction today, as it is Ash Wednesday, I look forward to the future devouring of cows, pigs, chickens, and various other assorted animals in the future. One of my best friends spent a great deal of time in the Orient and is partial to roasted dog. I may even try that one day. Animals were made for our pleasure and benefit. It might sound cold, but that is how I see it. If you look at the Catholic prayers of blessing over animals, you will see that they reflect the same perspective. Today I will consume a few of our vegetable friends and maybe Charlie the Tuna.

I have been around many animals all of my life and have had some very special dogs and I could tell you many tales that make one contemplate animals’ empathy and respect for life and existence.

FATHER JOE: Tell that to a neighbor of mine who was recently mauled by unattended dogs.

Recently, I had a an old horse that I’ve had for several years die. He would go out to pasture with the cattle and after he died I buried him on top of a hill in the back part of a large field. For the next 7 days, my cattle formed a circle around his grave at night ….they didn’t circle there before and they haven’t circled there since. It was almost a ritual for them and I often watched them in the moonlight to see how long they would do this. It was almost like they knew what happened and were mourning his passing.

FATHER JOE: Do you eat the cows? Do you drink their milk, and thus destroy the fetus for whom the milk was immediately intended? If animals have immortal souls… if they are no different than men and women… then PETA would be right and their destruction for food would indeed be murder. But I think they are wrong. Animals have natural sentiment or emotions, but that is all. There is no great self-reflection. I think you are suffering from a bout of anthropomorphism.

I think most of us old country folks can tell many stories regarding animals and our dogs and the special place they hold in our lives. I hope and pray and believe that dogs do have a soul perhaps not in the same dimension and depth that humans do but nevertheless a valued and cherished life force that I hope will be in heaven when we believers get there.

FATHER JOE: It is sufficient that the substantial form of animals should exist in the eternal mind of God. We must avoid misdirection. Even the presence of all human souls in heaven is not assured. Do not forget, there is a hell. But there will be no sadness in heaven. We will see God face-to-face and we shall be satisfied and happy.
on February 18, 2010 at 12:33 am Ruth

I feel that in heaven all animals and the nature also is overthere. The Kingdom of Heaven must be like a dream come true. All the animals playing with each other, flowers of colors never seen before, the lakes, ocean with a clarity. The souls that ar there never aging, neither sick. I think that the animals are there because they were result of Gods creation. Heaven is aperfect lace where everyhing is beautiful.

FATHER JOE: Maybe, but all that matters to me is that I get there and that God has a place for me and his other friends.
on February 20, 2010 at 3:45 pm Anthony

“And God saw everything that he had made and behold it was very good” Genesis 1:31

“And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them heard I saying , Blessing and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever” Revelation 5:13

“For creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it, in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now, and not only that, but we ourselves who have the firstfruits of the spirit we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies”
Romans 8:20-23

Check out some of these scriptures.
Job 12:6-10 & 12:9-10
Psalm 50:10-11
Psalm 148:5-6
1st Corinthians 15:35-43
Wisdom 1:13-16 & 12:1
Colossians 1:15-20

We have to remember that the Bible was written for mankind because we were the ones who sinned. Animals don’t sin, and as the book of Romans tells us that animals were subjected to the earthly struggles and death because of our sins. God created everything with an imperishable spirit. (Wisdom 12:1)

God is love!

FATHER JOE: Everything at least has intentional existence in the divine mind. That is really the most we can dogmatically say about non-angelic and non-human entities. Nice quotes.
on May 20, 2010 at 2:38 pm Joey Diehl

“Father” Joe, today I had to put my dog to sleep, and everyone in my family cried. We are a devout Catholic family and, I can assure you dogs feel love, hate, pain, happiness and other feelings. So Father, this is my question for you, If God sacrificed his only son Jesus to save our souls, why would he deny me my best friend?
on June 12, 2010 at 10:55 pm themadjewess

My Dog Pookie went STRAIGHT to Heaven.
on June 14, 2010 at 6:00 pm Veronica

I am 10 years old, and I always belive that animals are no different then human… and if this is not true does that mean animals do not feel pain… why must your dog die without going to heaven why can’t they be there right beside you and enjoy a good life. Most animals are treated badly why must their whole lives be treated with sorrow and pain how come they can not enjoy heaven with their best friend, their master. It is not fair to an animal. Do they even have souls or are they there to be eaten… WHY do they have to be treated harshly during life and death and humans are treated with great goodness aren’t they gods children too? Didn’t he put them here on the earth with great care and respect… I feel as if I had been destroyed when I heard animals don’t go to heaven… I love animals with all my heart… I can not bare to hear that animals are killed and eaten I try to become a vegetarian but my mommy won’tr let me. It is because I care for animals SOOO much I love them like I love people because truly in my heart everything is equal no matter human or animal I LOVE them both I don’ won’t them to be hurt.

FATHER JOE: Hello Veronica. First, be careful what you read here, some of it is just for the grownups. Second, dogs can indeed feel pleasure and pain. They can be very special and loyal friends. We should take care of our animals and give our pets happy lives. The same God that made you and me also made all the animals. God loves all his creatures. We can trust that God will do what is just and right for us and the animals. You are a very bright ten year old. Animals are fortunate to have a friend like you. God bless!
on July 19, 2010 at 1:59 am Lori

Hello Father Joe,

I appreciate that the bible does not directly deal with the question of whether or not animals go to heaven when they die. We can only speculate. The fact of the matter is, what I was always taught, is that if you believe Christ died for your sins, you will go to heaven. That is the ONLY requirement. No amount of good deeds will get you into heaven if you think otherwise. Animals are not capable of having this explained to them, of understanding this. Neither are young children. So is there a difference in what happens to children too young to understand Christ’s sacrifice? What about people in areas of the world where Christianity is not present – if they never learn of Christ, are they denied a place in heaven when they die?
on August 9, 2010 at 5:40 pm kobidobidog

dogs will to heaven. All non human animals that did not accept vanity willingly will go to heaven. \KJV,Romans 8. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Creature is the non human animal that did not accept vanity willingly,and will be freed from corruption which is death. glorious liberty in heaven.

FATHER JOE: You certainly have a right to your opinion, but I neither follow your logic nor you biblical interpretation.
on August 10, 2010 at 11:32 pm kobidobidog

[This message has been deleted. No defense for beastiality can be made. Please do not continue to post such remarks at this site.]–FJ
on August 11, 2010 at 8:15 pm SAD

Father, I lost my beloved 3 year old doggie only 11 days ago due to water toxicity. She was a healthy playful pup, was playing by the pool with friends and family, consumed too much water which depleted her sodium in her body (not the brain) causing her brain to swell. Within minutes she was in a coma and was unable to breath on her own. As my brother raced us to the ER vet, I administered rescue breaths. It took about 2 hours, but she came around after being on a ventilator and began breathing on her own, though she remained in a coma another day with very subtle signs of neurological improvements, giving us all hope. Then she seizured out and lost her breath again, and we made the decision to let her go.

I suppose I’m writing this to hear your take on pre-determined destinies for pets. I got her three years ago when I moved from NY to Ohio to begin my residency. She was my saving grace there, my only family, my only friend through some difficult periods. In June, I graduated residency and took a five week road trip across the country with my dog and my girlfriend which was delightful. We arrived back in NY where I would begin my job, FINALLY settling in. Everything seemed perfect, I even recieved news I passed my surgical boards. Then in a matter of minutes she was gone…

I was a devout Catholic for a long time and even attended a Jesuit undergrad. Though since medical school had slowly drifted away from the Church and God. Now that my beloved pet is gone, and at such a young age, I try to tell myself it wasn’t coincidence, she was put here for a reason. But I can’t figure out if what I’m telling myself is the truth or if I’m lying to myself to help ease the pain of losing her. Dogs ought to be allowed into heaven over humans. If a quarter of the people in the world were as caring as my Serafina, this would be such a better place to live in (myself included). I’m so confused, I guess I was simply curious of your thoughts on the matter.

thanks for your time, Father.
on August 11, 2010 at 10:39 pm Father Joe

I am so sorry about the loss of your friend. Three years may be a short time, but certainly long enough to form a loving relationship. You took care of her and she was there for you. As a physician, you are a good and caring person. You miss her and are grieving. Time will help, but she may always possess a small portion of your heart. Focus on the good memories and know that you compassionately let her go.

As a Christian, I believe in divine providence (God’s will) which respects freedom, virtue and vice, natural calamity and accidents. Fate or determinism makes no room for such liberty and/or autonomy. Bad things happen. Please do not blame yourself or feel guilty about it. When you realized something was wrong, intervention was made to save her. Just as with people, sometimes we make it, sometimes we do not. Your doggie graced you with her presence when you needed her companionship; now the mystery of her death prepares you for what you will sometimes encounter with patients.

It may very well be that her presence was providential and that she was a part of your life for a reason. There are some who think that pets will join their masters in heaven, although there is some presumption that the human beings will be found so worthy. The Church permits such speculation. Speaking for myself, as a priest, I believe it is certain that all that is good about God’s creatures can be found in the divine mind of the Creator. Nothing is lost in God.

You must know that any response from me would be bias. I would urge you to return to your faith. Study your faith as seriously as you studied medicine. Place your skills as a physician into the hands of God. Pray and find peace in God’s will, even when it is difficult to understand.

There is a great religious poem called THE HOUND OF HEAVEN by Francis Thompson. I would urge you to read it.

God bless you!
on August 19, 2010 at 2:49 pm Mary

Hi Father,
I want to write this story and you tell me if it’s cool. I’m going to hopefully work on it in the Catholic guild and any one reading it here knows cats patrol hell and who wants a cat? Not me for sure, so it won’t be stollen from me to publish from one of us dog lovers. Hope it’s inspiring though!

A young girl confused about whether she really does have a connection with God or if she is simply a classic case of a psychological trauma victim, She has seen LOVE written in the stars but afterwards finds out she‘s bi-polar. She makes a personality box with symbols of roses and pearls and thinks from her dreams she might have a connection with Our Lady. It appears to some in the Church she is able to predict the future with her camera. Our Lady pleas in heaven for shared equally shared holiness for all as the main character feels chosen to plea the magistrate. As Jesus gets closer, the world begins to realize that this is the purpose of life; we have all agreed to leave heaven knowing Lucifer would come after us but God is so upset that he had to kick him out we do it for him. ‘All for one and one (Jesus) for all!’ When Jesus comes back, he has decided to share his glory so Lucifer is not tempted again to rebel against him. In the meantime, Christians are gathering more and more ’rocks’ to throw at their own Goliaths in there lives. I.E. the young girls rocks are music, faith, and bi-polar medication to smash the Goliath in herself. Other characters in the Church are aware of what’s going on and their wars on their Goliaths will be addressed to, counseling for adulterers being a rock along with renewing of vows, stuff like that. Not all know his return is coming soon, those who do are the intimate community of believers Pope John II prophesized about. Christians are reunited through a magical communion that the Pope takes at an Episcopal Church, “the bridge between Protestant and Catholic”. ( Good idea so far? I actually am bi-polar so I don’t mean to offend anyone if I’m off base with teaching too far, I know the idea’s a little out there and the Pope did just say full communion with the Episcopalians looks impossible, no offense to him J). oooo I could add that! He realizes with God it is all possible and they have been joined through the magical communion he takes there.

FATHER JOE: I made reference to hellish cats only in jest. I encourage my bi-polar friends to stay close to the Lord and to take the medicine given them by doctors. There are a number of problematical and confusing elements in your plot synopsis. I would urge against the book. While there is a tradition for prophecy, fortune-telling is usually the gimmick of superstition. Holiness is not a matter of equality but grace to which we must be disposed by faith and charity. Lucifer wants no part of heaven because God is there. Precisely for this reason, the angels and saints know heaven as their eternal home. They would not want to escape and there is no need. All is secure and healed in God’s presence. You mention communion as magical, but it is not. It is a sacrament. Catholicism is true religion and true religion means an end to magic or superstition. The rest is a bit convoluted and I am at a loss as to understand what you are trying to say. If you are not feeling well, be careful of the internet and seek the help of friends you can trust. I will be praying for you. God bless you.
on August 19, 2010 at 4:42 pm Mary

I just posted that story idea, sorry scatter-brained..topic is Dogs. And Our Lady pleas for Dogs in heaven too, no cats though unless they are willing to get along with the dogs. Lions laying with lambs yes but you know house cats scratch the poor puppies sometimes. Perhaps house cats are made holy by their lion ancestors or something, I don’t know I’ll see if in my story the cats make it in.
on August 22, 2010 at 1:45 pm Mary

No I feel quite well but thank you! Yea my pills rock, it’s just an idea….I remember in Catholic School lot’s of philosophy. I do however respect those who think romance and magic are foolish things. However, I’m a very fairy-tales rock kind of gal. Thanks for your prayers though! I’ll pray for you too!
on September 9, 2010 at 8:43 pm Sarah

Hi, I have not read all of these post I stopped around April 08 LOL. I do have some questions though… One suggestion was that they are prepared as food?? How would that be an issue? If a man was to eat another man would that then make the man that had been eaten soulless, because he was used as food?? It is clearly written that we should not eat each other as well as many animals, including pigs which you say are very smart. I have a hard time accepting that my loving caring and giving Lord would give something, or someone the ability to feel compassion, love, pain, hurt, or anything else without a reason or soul. As far as stopping at ticks and fleas, why? Why can’t they have souls, too? Yes, we were made as people to be over them and have physical power over them but does that mean that they are any less alive? What about plants? I know that if I miss a day watering certain plants they droop and begin to wither. I also truly believe that they respond to positive attention. Is heaven not big enough for all the souls of plants, fleas, frogs, birds, or fish? Does it ever say specifically in the Bible that humans are the only beings on Earth that have souls? If not, how exactly can you say that they don’t?

FATHER JOE: Part of the problem here might be how you define the soul. It is not only a principle of life, but in human beings, a source for our individuated identity. The Church speaks about the non-material human soul in reference to the intellect and will. Our rationality places us on a different level from other creatures in the material world. If animals have “material souls” or only a substantial form preserved in the divine mind, then when the animal dies there is nothing remaining to go to heaven.
on September 11, 2010 at 6:36 pm Rafa

While I know not of God’s full plans, yet it is true that anything is possible with the Almighty.
on September 15, 2010 at 11:44 am SAD

Hi Father,

I just wanted to say thank you for your response and the poem. I had to read the poem twice to get a greater understanding. As for my pain over my lost friend… it got a lot harder after I wrote before it became a little better, as it is now. I’m still heart broken. I still look for a reason, though I know I shouldn’t. However, I do have a sense of calm about me over what happened. I can’t explain it. I’ve been praying more regularly, though I have not attended church at all since. I still miss her dearly everyday. I wish wholeheartedly I can one day be reunited with her, she was my baby. I know she wasn’t going to live forever, but 3 years were just too short.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice. My life is hectic now since I’ve begun practice. I’ll keep up with your posts. Thanks.

Ryan
on October 13, 2010 at 12:27 pm Rick

Thank you Fr. Joe for your honest insight. One who is able to read a lot of the nonsense here on this site and still find the fortitude to continue…. is one well balanced and loving human being.
on November 4, 2010 at 7:31 pm Lewis Saintsing

You
can’t love something so much and them not join you in heaven. Look into your dogs eyes and tell me he or she doesn’t have a soul. Something that loves so unconditionally has to have a soul. I look forward to seeing my dogs in heaven. I burried one in the rain today. I be crushed if I though she would not go to heaven. GOD bless ALL dogs and humans. We placed her head toward the top of the hill so she can overlook and under shade trees wrapped in my blanket. Sad sad day!
on November 7, 2010 at 10:44 pm Lyn Gray

I am in dreadful grief at the present time as my beloved little dog was run over and killed this morning. Both my husband and I are grieving way beyond what we thought we ever would. To lose a creature who gives such unconditional love and selfless time of itself is heartbreaking. I was always taught that ALL THINGS BRIGHT & BEAUTIFUL, ALL CREATURES GREAT & SMALL ALL THINGS WISE & WONDERFUL THE LORD GOD MADE THEM ALL – so why on earth would he leave out one of his most wonderful creations the dog. I need to feel that my little dog is at peace and running in heavenly meadows somewhere. Most sites tell me that no dogs don’t go to heaven and I would like to know how they know. I don’t believe they do and I don’t believe there is anything about it in the bible because it’s not relevant – faith is faith.

Dog is God spelt backwards.

Regards Lyn Gray
on November 10, 2010 at 9:10 am John C

Dear Lyn: Concerning, do dogs go to heaven. I think not. Humans have a soul, souls go to heaven. Dogs and other animals not made in the image of God do not have souls, as I understand it.

Misplaced affection: Pets often are used by their owners as a means of displacing feelings of loss or desires for belonging and love that would otherwise be directed at and/or involved with the people in our lives.

I think we would all be better off if we took the emotional risks of deepening the intimacy in or lives with those we love.
on November 11, 2010 at 10:34 pm Robin

The “fact” is no one knows what will happen when we die, people or animals. The “Book” written by priests who wanted to control the populace is being used to control and damage people (Protestant or Catholic) since 500 AD. Leave “organized religion” and think for yourself, and you will be happy. You can rely on yourself and have no fear of death, for you or your pets. FEAR is why we have churches and the pastors/priests to tell us what to think.

It’s the 21st century, folks, time to lose narrow-mindedness and think for yourselves.
Signed,
former Catholic (not going to Hell, because Hell is here on earth…just read the newspapers every day. There is nothing to fear when we die, absolutely nothing). Now Agnostic.

FATHER JOE: Dear Robin, the most you can claim is that “you” do not know what happens to people after they die. Given that statement, what if Christians and others are right about an afterlife? Who are you to tell people what they can and cannot believe? Let us be honest, you think “you” do know what happens after death, that we become worm food. I suspect the book to which you give reference is the Bible. The canon was established in the fourth century and St. Paul’s Letter to the Corinthians probably goes back to 63 AD. All the New Testament books were completed no later than 125 AD (The Book of Revelation). The Old Testament goes back considerably further. That is a lot older than 500 AD. Who are you to tell God that he cannot reveal himself and his plans for us? Let us be honest, you do not believe in God and probably regard creation as a cosmic joke. The Catholic Church was instituted by Jesus Christ. Before that the Jewish people were called apart from other nations and entrusted with the promise of salvation. The Church preaches hope and not fear. Atheists are the real purveyors of despair and fear. Such people say that this life is all there is— go for the gusto— because pain and eternal death awaits us. Good people suffer, the wicked flourish, the cards deal out crummy lives for many— and there is no divine justice or mercy— just the void and nothingness to follow. You would have people live in vain. I find that monstrous and frightful. The narrow-mindedness is yours. Christians embrace mystery but you seem to think you have all the answers. There is a great deal of hubris in that. You sign out as a “former” Catholic but I have to wonder how deep such a faith ever went. I suspect you grew up and errantly tried to make do with a grammar school religious education to which you were rarely attentive. You are right about one thing, as a person without faith, your hell does begin here on earth. But if there is a failure to love, it will follow you into the world to come. Yours is a world that does not matter; where everyone and everything is destined to be forgotten in oblivion. The loss of hope is precisely a kind of hell. Why would you urge people to join you there?
on November 13, 2010 at 8:38 am Kathy

Dear Lyn,this past September,I lost my beloved rooster Rocky, my cat of 14 years Bear the very next day, and my precious cat George to lympho-sarcoma three weeks later. I also grieved in a way that I did not expect. My heart goes out to you and in my morning prayers today I will pray for God to ease your burden. In scripture there is a passage about “how can we be sure a mans spirit goes up and an animals spirit goes down” and God was also concerned about “innocent children and animals” when He turned back from destroying one of the biblical cities but my memory at present fails me as to which one it was (?Ninevah) Do I believe we will see our pets again, YES, I do. Where does their spirit come from if not God. They love and are loved and I believe God honors that love because love comes from God. When I was grieving all this loss too I sat at my prayer table and cried and cried and a beautiful scripture passage came to me from the Psalms; “For you oh Lord are a shield for me, my glory, and the lifter of my head.” He is “The God of all comfort”. Your furbaby is in God’s hands, I really believe that. You can e-mail me if you need to talk. In God’s love, Kathy ArrowFarm5@comcast.net
on November 14, 2010 at 5:08 pm Lyn Gray

I still think animals are one of God’s greatest creations and that they pass to an afterlife – I don’t care what anyone else says. The God I was brought up to believe would not exclude them from Heaven. The joy they bring and the love the animal feels towards it’s owner has to emanate from something spiritual.

I think the Buddhists have got it right, all living things/creatures have souls.

FATHER JOE: Traditional Buddhists do not believe in particular individuated souls or a strictly “personal” survival beyond the grave. As one authority told me, you are welcome to dissolve into the great nothingness. I think Christians have a better solution.
on November 20, 2010 at 2:39 pm Lady Godless

Father Joe said: “Atheists are the real purveyors of despair and fear.”

Not me. I spread sunshine.

FATHER JOE: Okay, I suppose there are exceptions.
on November 21, 2010 at 5:10 pm Lyn Gray

I don’t know what Buddhist doctrine you were reading Father Joe but the one I was reading tells me differently from your version. Buddhist have the utmost respect for other people’s beliefs something that does not pass to the conventional religions. Muslims call anyone who is not a muslim an infidel and catholics tend to think they have all the answers. I was raised a methodist (now uniting church) and they had no real substance either. I am content to believe there is a greater power than me and all of mankind and that power is fair and just and probably wouldn’t be all that impressed with organised religion.

I also believe and always will that the creator will take all living creatures to heaven bar that of mankind who has sinned way beyond redemption.

No one is right or wrong in this debate – it’s all personal faith.

FATHER JOE:

The late pope regarded Buddhism more a philosophy and even a variation upon atheism than a religion in terms that we would understand. Pope John Paul II later apologized for expressing this in a way that upset many of them. Buddhism also has its intolerance and extremism. Catholics and churches have been attacked and destroyed by them in places like Sri Lanka (here is one story from last Christmas).

All religions think they have the answers, Catholicism is no different and as a priest I believe that God has given us his revelation and the Church. You say that you are content to believe there is a greater power, but that says nothing about whether that power cares about you or intervenes in human history. Human sentiment vaguely formed by a Methodism you no longer avow is a pretty fragile foundation. That is not really very satisfactory. Technically, Buddhism does not posit any sort of almighty God. You are presumptuous that you and everyone else can go to heaven, assuming apart from Christ that you can somehow redeem yourself. Buddhism does not subscribe to the Judeo-Christian view of heaven either. There is a right and wrong in the debate. If the atheists are right, personal faith will not manufacture an afterlife. If Buddhists are right, there is no personal or individuated immortality. Christianity argues that God does indeed care about you and that Jesus offers his friends a share in his life. Divine justice and mercy meet in Christ and in his promises to us.
on November 27, 2010 at 9:46 pm Jim

Like many Catholics I believe in evolution. Any anthropologist will tell you that primate ancestors of humans had many traits that we now would call human. For instance, there are many burials of Neanderthals with flowers and artifacts suggesting a belief in an afterlife. There is also much evidence that disabled family members were cared for over many years when they could no longer hunt and lovingly interred after their death. There is even some evidence that Neanderthals interbred with homo sapiens. Did these very human-like people lack a human souls? If they only had an animal soul, were they condemned to total annihilation after death? It would seem safer to presume that God’s loving mercy can extend to any creature he deems worthy of his loving concern.

FATHER JOE: Neanderthals are regarded by the Church as members of the human family. There is also growing evidence that some of us carry traces of their DNA. They had souls.
on November 29, 2010 at 2:26 am john

father Joe, can you please explain to me Luke 7 ;28? My first take was that those who died before our Lord’ s death will not be included in his coming kingdom. This passage has played in my mind for a some time now. Thank you.

FATHER JOE:

Did you hit the wrong key? Luke 7:28 is as follows: “I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” It is about John the Baptizer.

You must mean another verse. Looking at the question, Catholic teaching is as follows:

1. The gates of heaven were closed to us by original sin.

2. The righteous dead who died before the coming of Christ descended to the limbo of the fathers (called “hell” in the Apostles’ Creed, however, this is different from the hell of the damned).

3. After his redemptive or saving death, Jesus descends to the limbo of the fathers (hell or to the dead) and makes possible their passage to heaven. The membership here would include Adam and Eve and many since, kings, patriarchs, prophets, faithful Jews and even righteous Gentiles. The limbo of the fathers NO LONGER EXISTS. Of course, the other hell or the hell of the damned had never closed its doors for business. But a different sort went there.

4. At present, the Church speaks of three realities after death. One of these, like the old limbo of the fathers, is temporary and that is Purgatory. When our Lord returns to consummate all things, it will also cease to exist. Then there will only be two eternal realities: heaven where the saints see God and hell where the damned are tormented by their own hatred of God and others (as well as fire or the pain of the senses).

Many in the Church used to talk about another kind of limbo, called the limbo of the innocents. This was never a defined doctrine of the Church but rather a teaching based upon theological reflection. It dealt with the question about unbaptized babies who died. It was regarded as a place where the children would be naturally happy but forever ignorant of God. Early Christians, like St. Augustine, thought that such children went to hell. Limbo was an attempt of the Scholastic philosophers to find another answer. But that answer is not really supported by the Church fathers or Scripture. It is not mentioned in the universal catechism today, but we are hopeful that God will make a special provision for these little ones. The question is very pertinent given the millions of abortions. What happens to dead babies? We trust in our merciful God. It is also the prayer and will of the Church that they be saved. Maybe like the Holy Innocents, killed by Herod’s soldiers in Christ’s stead, they are all given a special place in the House of God?
on November 30, 2010 at 10:30 pm john

More specifically, this question is, why is John the Baptizer the greatest born of women, but less great than the least
of the kingdom? Is it because we are born of the holy spirit?
My keyboard is very flawed, but the verse was correct. Thanks for the background information!
on December 1, 2010 at 8:16 pm Anna

You obviously know nothing about horses or their intelligence to make the laughable claim that they are ‘not much better’ than sheep. Maybe know what you’re talking about before randomly claiming things.

And try not to use terms like ‘worm food’. Many people i am sure, have come here to seek some sort of solace about their beloved pet dying. To have them referred to as ‘worm food’ is appalling behaviour from anyone, but especially a priest.

FATHER JOE: Did you read all my remarks? I wonder because you focused on a few peripheral points. The business about sheep and horses and so much else in the animal kingdom is to emphasize that they are not human. While there are differing opinions, there are no dogmatic positions in Catholicism about any afterlife for animals. While I might be accused of being a minimalist, the most I think we can say for sure is that they continue to exist as paradigms in the divine mind. Traditional Thomism would argue that their shared “substantial form” does not survive mortality and corruption. But, as I have said before, God can do what he wills. As for the term “worm food,” you need to wake up and face the hard fact about your own temporal existence. Except for your immortal soul, one day your body will also become “worm food.” We are dust and unto dust we shall return. You obviously know very little about the lives of priests. Priests constantly see death and dying. I have even blessed mangled corpses in the morgue. Life is short and judgment will come for all. What I find appalling are those who try to dress up death as something else, like a parody of life. People use avoidance and excuses to turn away from the truth. Maybe you should learn something of this truth before you question my competence to speak about this issue?

As a person who likes poetry, did you never read Poe’s or Blake’s reference to “the food of worms”? Did you ever see the film, THE DEAD POET’S SOCIETY?

Keating: “Seize the day. Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.” Why does the writer use these lines?

Charlie: Because he’s in a hurry.

Keating: No. Ding! Thank you for playing anyway. Because we are food for worms, lads. Because, believe it or not, each and every one of us in this room is one day going to stop breathing, turn cold and die.
on December 15, 2010 at 3:25 pm Belle's Keeper

Father Joe, I read a lot of posts here today on this subject and several others as I have had some observations in my life, a catholic, who is convinced…they go to heaven. My father passed away in 2000 on June 29th suddenly. It was very quick and not expected. However, I have had a strange happening that occured in 1999, that will lead to further explanation. I am known to dream like most. I walk in my sleep from time to time as well. On June 29th 1999, I had a deep slumber where a dream began on my old 1949 Chris Craft boat I lived on. I remembered it very clearly the next day as this dream was different…it was in color. In this dream, I took the boat down major highways…yes, land….to an exit off the highway. I stopped the boat and approached a bright light….yes, like many describe. I walked up to see my very tan father standing by St Peter who was also very tan, sitting at a white desk. A couple of odd things here, my father would not make eye contact with me….that was odd….St Peter told me “we will revisit this in one year”. I then woke up. One year to that date, I never forgot….my father passed away. Does this mean that dogs go to heaven? No, but there is a tie in. In 2001, I had a dream, again in color. In this dream my golden retriever was in it, or so I thought it was. My ex wife explained to me that morning, what were you seeing in your dream last night? She then told me what the dream was…..I had gone to the front door of the house I moved into and opened the storm door. I then began to call for Shea. Well, I don’t have a dog named Shea, I never heard of anyone with a dog by that name. She said my real golden was hiding in the corner in our living room. My ex then told me she watched my eyes follow the dog into the house, as I held the storm door open. She said it was a little erie. I told Shea to lay on his bed and watched him lay in his bed. I then went to bed. So, this is erie, right? The next day my ex opened my golden retreivers AKC papers….my golden retriever, BJ’s, father was named Shea…….Shea was killed by a car exactly 1 year before I had this dream. I remember the dream…it was in color too.
These life experiences put me into circumstances of taking care of another golden named Belle. She was a myathenia gravis victim who was given 5 months to live. God gave her 9 years….She gave up her life to a test program for Roche Pharmaceuticals so humans could get out of wheel chairs, with MG, for the first time in their lives. Of the 10 dogs that were picked, Belle was the only survivor. So, my point to this email. I know there is a heaven, I have seen the wellcome committee….I have seen dogs in spirit form…..there is only one place Belle went, I do not believe coincident with all this. It was just too overwhelming. I now attend church regularly……I was a believer over the years, but not a good catholic…..Some out there would say this was just concidence…..nope…..I know why my dad never made eye contact with me….he knew how hard my mother would be to take care of and that we didn’t really know her like we used to. He knew she would be a burden on the family, however, she is our mother and we do take care of her. Take care Father Joe, God Bless, Russ Krain
on December 19, 2010 at 6:28 pm Lyn Gray

I think too many people suppose they are right in this arguement. There is no right or wrong and there is no right religion. To be so arrogant to say that one’re religion is the chosen one is wrong. I believe in what my heart tells me and I believe in a creator who created all living things and takes all living things to an afterlife. I’m not catholic but certainly don’t feel that I’m going down the wrong path because I’m not.

Religions have caused all the major problems and blood shed in the world since the beginning. No one really practices what Jesus taught or Mohammed for that matter.

I still stay the Buddhist have got it right.

FATHER JOE:

Truth is not relative. There is an objective reality. Saying that there is no right or wrong religion is a logical absurdity. Just saying that your car engine should run on molasses does not make it so. Just believing that if you flap your arms you can fly will not keep you in the air. As a Catholic priest, I believe that Christianity is God’s revealed truth to men.

The true arrogance is the posturing that a number of critics entertain as if they are somehow neutral or above the discussion about religion. This is also a deception. You yourself disavow any right or wrong religion but then attempt to feed us your water-downed disparate amalgamation of religious notions, sometimes termed New Age religion. It is most often closer to superstition than to the truth.

On one hand you talk about a “personal” or even private religion between you and the Creator; on the other, you endorse as most right a Buddhism which is more a philosophical atheism than a religion as such. (This is not meant as an insult to Buddhism, just an appreciation that it is quite different from “religion” as understood by proponents of Western civilization.) Indeed, this eastern religion neither avows a distinct “conscious” individual after death nor the generally accepted concept of a deity.

The issue of people, religious or not, and their behavior is another topic entirely. By the way, in countries with a Buddhist majority, Christians are currently suffering intolerance and even violence. Tenets about pacifism or even our notions of fraternal love and peace in Christ must be embraced and lived out by sinful men and women. But sometimes we are not what we are supposed to be.
on January 6, 2011 at 8:13 pm Megan

I believe my dogs will go to heaven with me. I have to, while its just too sad to think about them being here in my house with no one here, no food, no love, no companionship. The bible talks about the lion laying with the lamb, and mentions of a snake tame enough not to bite a child. Also mention of horses. So theres no doubt in my mind that there will be animals in heaven. I only hope mine will come too. But It also states the God will give you the desires of your heart, and they are most certainly my desires! So The God that I know, I believe he will let them come.
on January 9, 2011 at 6:05 pm Lyn Gray

Megan yours is the loveliest answer I have read on this site and expresses my sentiment exactly. My dogs have all been a vital part of my life and given me unconditional love, something which most humans fail to do. To not have these amazing creatures with me in the after life is not an option for me and the God I was raised to believe would not allow it either. After all they are His creations and therefore must eventually find a home in His kingdom.
on January 9, 2011 at 11:31 pm Lyn Gray

Good grief I just realised your answer above was to me. I have absolutely no idea what you said. I do not espouse Buddhism because I don’t fully understand it, but what I have read has told me they are on the right path. I think all religion is personal and so it should be. I went to a strict religious school as teenager and am still scarred by the dreadful teachings. We were made to feel sinful every day.

As I’ve said I believe in what my heart tells me and I most certainly believe animals go to heaven. Like Will Rogers (I think it was him) “IF DOGS DON’T GO TO HEAVEN THEN WHEN I DIE I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY DO”

We’ll never know the right answer until we draw our last breath.

FATHER JOE: The Apostle Paul would disagree with you. Jesus has promised his friends a share in his life. As for being guilty and scared, some people are guilty and have every reason to be worried. Walk with the Lord and you go where he has gone. Walk another way, and we will find ourselves lost. The response to feeling sinful is repentance, not dismissal of the message and abandoning our discipleship.
on January 14, 2011 at 8:44 am Stacey

Father Joe, do you have a dog?

FATHER JOE: I have a demonic cat. Years ago my family had cats, dogs, rabbits, ducks, turtles, assorted other birds, and even a possum that its home with us. Back on the farm we had a horse, pigs, and chickens.
on January 16, 2011 at 6:08 pm Lyn Gray

I never said I felt guilty or scared Father, I said scarred. Quite different. I stand by what I say and no amount of bible quoting will sway me. Good folk no matter what religion they practice are welcomed into the after life. I have no reason to feel guilty or scared. I’m a good person and I have never knowingly hurt another soul. I still believe in a God that loves all His creations enough to give them all everlasting life.

FATHER JOE: I don’t recall making an argument about woundedness or fear. Bible quoting? Did I do much of that? My stress has been upon what we believe, or as in your case, what some do not believe. Religions have various beliefs and they are not the same. I do not think you can pick-and-choose certain tenets from one religion and others from another, making up your own inconsistent and illogical belief system. We should also not misconstrue religious systems but understand them as their adherents do, no matter if in the right or wrong. As a Christian, I can understand the religious teachings of others; however, this does not mean that I place any credence or belief in them. You mention Buddhism but your response is not Buddhist with its stress on the soul, God, creation and a personal or individuated afterlife.
on January 30, 2011 at 2:41 pm Paul

I have a hard time understanding the purpose of the OP, as a Catholic priest, posting this blog and many of his responses. If it is out of charity, then I would need to have charity explained to me again. Then again, some people confuse saying whatever is on their mind with being honest and being a proponent of truth, no matter if the timing or the venue calls for it.

I like others here have difficulty with the OP’s choice of words and perhaps (although I hope not) his apparent lack of charity. As an example, when being questioned on his use of the term “worm food”, the OP’s response to the poster was “you obviously know very little about the lives of priests”. Well, I do know something about the lives of priests. I am personal friends with the Moderator of the Curia of a midwestern arch-diocese as well as priests in his prayer fraternity and other priests through him. I’ve known them for approximately 15 years. My dog Sam was just put down last Thursday and the amount of support from these priests has been overwhelming. Even those that are not animal lovers recognized the attachment that I had to my dog and have tried to be very comforting. Not one time did they use any term that was like “worm food”. I’ve also seen these priests prepare for counseling those who have recently lost a loved one, as the OP indicates “Priests constantly see death and dying”. Again, no phrase anywhere near approaching the term “worm food” is brought up.

I’ve read most of this page and would like to let people thinking about the Catholic church who have suffered the loss of a pet know that the priests I’ve known are significantly more supportive than the OP seems to be here. While I actually felt closer to God due to their support during the time of putting my dog down and the days since, reading this post, which I came to looking for additional comfort, has done the exact opposite. That’s why I started this with indicating that I have a hard time understanding the purpose of this post and especially his responses, because if it is to help people who are suffering and to bring them closer to God and to the Catholic church, for someone of the OP’s obvious intelligence, I would think that he would have been able to find a better way and perhaps a better use of his obvious talents.

FATHER JOE:

The long and short of it is that you do not like what I have to say. You would rather I simply go away than to add my views to the question of animals and the afterlife. It is true that I sometimes express things in a shockingly honest way, but that is me. I do not compare myself to other priests although I do question matters of dissent and passivity. It is not a charity to lie to people. As I have said before, and I admit that I might be wrong, I do not view animals as having a distinct, personal and/or individuated existence beyond the grave. Rather, and great doctors of faith would support this, only their substantial forms would continue to exist as paradigms in the divine mind. All that is mortal and flesh dies, or to use the term which you find objectionable, becomes “worm food.” By the way, this also includes your physicality and mine. Yes, this is blunt, and if people do not like what I have to say, they do not have to read it. There are plenty of other Blogs. I made a post about the subject and people commented. I responded to comments. That is how this blogging business works.

The allusion is in many works and even in film. Here is dialogue from THE DEAD POETS SOCIETY:

Keating: “Seize the day. Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.” Why does the writer use these lines?

Charlie: Because he’s in a hurry.

Keating: No. Ding! Thank you for playing anyway. Because we are food for worms, lads. Because, believe it or not, each and every one of us in this room is one day going to stop breathing, turn cold and die.

Originally the post was more academic than pastoral. While I can sympathize with the loss of a pet, my charity is with the people and not the animals. I do not think I have been harsh. I think you make too much of very little. My ultimate concern is that people should occupy themselves with the matter of their own immortality and not so much about that of pets.

You may know something about the lives of priests, but certainly not enough. We see a lot of death. We do not glamorize or sanitize it. It is a messy and frightful business into which we come to bring hope and consolation. Have you ever given the Anointing of the Sick as the surgeons massage a dying man’s heart? Have you ever held a woman up as she tried to identify the remains of her son after a car accident at the morgue? After offering prayers, have you ever helped to mop up excrement from a poor woman who dropped dead on her bathroom floor? Have you ever tried to console parents who cannot be consoled as the mother holds the dead body of her baby in her arms? I am haunted by these experiences, as most priests are. But it is part of our vocation. Who are you to come here and judge me? As I write this I have two funerals facing me, one for a dear friend and another for an elderly lady who was a devout Catholic and loving mother.

This post was not made to help you get over grieving about your dog, Sam. But having said this, I will pray that the Lord will bring peace to your heart about this loss. I am glad that local clergy have been supportive to your needs. Given your personal pain I will forgive your harshness and judgment of me.