OBAMA: “The issue of abortion, I don’t think, has gone away. People think about it a lot, obviously you do and you feel impassioned. I think that the American people struggle with two principles: There’s the principle that a fetus is not just an appendage, it’s potential life. I think people recognize that there’s a moral element to that. They also believe that women should have some control over their bodies and themselves and there is a privacy element to making those decisions.”
FATHER JOE: He is right, the issue of abortion has not gone away, although it is disturbing that so many prolifers are willing to shove it to the sidelines for charismatic candidates. Given the stakes, there is no way for serious people not to feel impassioned. And yet, it is this fire for the cause that is largely extinguished in the Democrat party, and yes, even increasingly among moderate Republicans, especially when it comes to stem-cell research. Senator Obama embraces no middle ground. He is solidly in the abortion camp and has the endorsement of Planned Parenthood. Note that he calls the fetus only POTENTIAL LIFE. This is a refusal to face the facts and to live up to the Christianity he claims for himself. The fetus is ALIVE and he or she is HUMAN. He says that it is “not just an appendage” but then essentially catalogues it as such by the dismissal of rights. Women have a right to some say over their bodies, but so do the unborn boys and girls. This is where the pro-abortion argument becomes nonsensical. Human life is incommensurate. One person does not have more of a right to life than another.
OBAMA: “I don’t think people take the issue lightly. A lot of people have arrived in the view that I’ve arrived at, which is that there is a moral implication to these issues, but that the women involved are in the best position to make that determination. And I don’t think they make it lightly. I don’t think they make it callously, so I reject a comparison between a woman struggling with these issues and Michael Vick fighting dogs for sport. I don’t think that’s sort of how people perceive it.”
FATHER JOE: Notice he tries to change the dynamics of the debate by saying that no one takes the issue lightly. The fact is that some become selfishly concerned about themselves and so-called CHOICE over the far more serious concern of LIFE and the bloody fact that abortion is MURDER. Pro-abortionists take the matter of innocent human life far too lightly. The moral implication regarding women destroying their children can no more be left strictly in their hands then that of a serial killer who likes to rape and murder women. Society must have laws to protect its people, especially those who are the most vulnerable. Our freedoms are not absolute. Do you have a right to shout fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire? No, because people might become hurt or killed in the stampede. Similarly, no one has a right to kill an unborn human being, either for sexual sport or because of inconvenience. The true choice is whether or not to engage in sexual activity, not to abort the innocent child.
Women often make the decision for abortion because the choice is made to look easy. They are manipulated by others and by an abortion industry that has become prosperous with the blood of the innocents. The reference to fighting dogs cannot be quickly dismissed either. The rights of dumb animals are esteemed as something higher than unborn people. That is madness!
OBAMA: “Now, this is one of those areas – again, I think it’s important to be honest – where I don’t think you’re ever going to get a complete agreement on this issue. If you believe that life begins at conception, then I can’t change your mind.”
FATHER JOE: He hit the point squarely on the head and yet he obviously does not see the truth. He says that the fetus is only life in potency, so when would he say the unborn child is a human with rights? Currently, such a designation is politically regarded on the left as completely arbitrary. That is why such politicians cannot earn the respect of true prolifers. Even if there should be some genuine confusion, the benefit of a doubt has to be given to the unborn child. We have to act in a way that would cause the least harm. Anything else is to play games with the sanctity of human life. Obama refuses to do this and opts for a political answer popular with radical feminists and abortionists, but one which conflicts with his profile as a man with integrity. Political expediancy mandates the killing of unborn children. What a terrible resolution!
OBAMA: “I think there is a large agreement, for example, that late-term abortions are really problematic and there should be a regulation. And it should only happen in terms of the mother’s life or severe health consequences, so I think there is broad agreement on these issues.”
FATHER JOE: Again, beware of words which constitute subterfuge. What we are talking about here are PARTIAL-BIRTH abortions, really instances of INFANTICIDE. These are healthy nine-month-old babies ready to be born. He says their birth and destruction should be “regulated”. Sorry, they should be prohibited! Notice his tricky use of slippery words! The qualification he gives would allow infanticide on demand, “in terms of the mother’s life or severe health consequences”. It is way too general. CHOICE and ABORTION is always waged as a matter that impacts on a “mother’s life”! As for health, he would also include mental and emotional health. YES, in other words, he also supports INFANTICIDE!
And so does Hillary!
PLEASE NOTE that I am not telling anyone for whom they should or should not vote and this post is entirely personal, representing no organization or church.
God help us!
Now we know WHO NOT TO VOTE FOR!!!!!!!
THE FRUIT OF ABORTION IS NUCLEAR WAR.
Blessed Theresa of Calcutta
Just found your blog Father Joe. Agreed on the issue of abortion. I don’t ever expect a just solution from the political sphere for pro-lifers. We simply have to provide more opportunities for women for continue their child’s life and give financial support after the birth of the child.
Fr. Joe,
Point well made. We can’t elect a leader of the “free” world if he/she openly agrees with murder. Pro-life should be first on the list of priorities. That’s where true freedom begins. You’re also right about us lacking a selection of pro-life candidates to choose from.
That’s a sad fact.
I think that they’re all spineless and self-seeking. We won’t see nor hear from any of them after the first Tuesday of November anyway. To quote an old farm woman friend: “They’re all as crooked as a dog’s hind leg.” Right. As it stands now, there’s no one worthy of my vote, sad to say.
God help us.
What I find interesting is the argument used by those in favor of partial birth abortion, similar to that of Obama’s response, which was only in cases of dire health consequences. If the public would become a bit more informed on the process of the procedure (aka murder) they would find that the act actually puts the mother in danger, more than any other condidtions, and that if the mother was healthy enough to have this performed then the baby should live. Without getting into gorey detail the procedure requires a c-section and then the baby is delivered until the head begins to breach the surgical opening, at this point the baby is then murdered (which I will not describe). it is considered abortion and not murder only because the child is prevented from two things: taking a breath and being fully delivered. this little trickery allows the procedure to be considered abortion (i.e. the child never fully is removed from the womb while still alive)
When i have informed those in favor of this type of abortion they are dumbfounded and doubt me until they google it and then i find them ashamed for supporting such an act. this is why the media will not discuss it openly, because it is a type of genocide hidden behind vague definitional terms, instead of factual description.
Sutemos,
Sad and also VERY VERY sinful. They say that ignorance is bliss. I say that ignorance is NOT bliss. Ignorance is EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hell is real because our Lord mentioned it 50 times in the Bible. Our Lady said that souls fall into hell like snowflakes because of sins of the flesh. A man once went to St. Padre Pio for confession and said that he didn’t believe in hell anymore. St. Pio gazed at him and said: “You’ll believe it when you get there.”
This world is in for a shock beyond description.
Obama, Clinton, and the rest of the pro-choice people will run and hide like rats.
WE have to remain prayerful
I wonder if Fr. Joe would like to address McCain’s stance on the issue. McCain has been duplicitious on abortion and firm on his stance supporting embryonic stem cell research.
Which is worse, to be honestly pro-choice or to be pro-choice but lie about it to get a vote? I’ll take the candidate who is at least honest on the subject any day, at least there can be dialogue where there is honesty.
McCain is on record on a R v W repeal because it suits him, this is the same man who said he would afford his own daughter the choice of abortion but deny it to the rest of the country.
If we are to have any progress on the abortion issue we need someone who actually cares about women and social issues and McCain is on the record as not being concerned with social issue. Honesty is important, like it or not abortion is legal in this democratic country and to invite comparison to Hitler’s totalitarian regime is a low blow.
Repealing R v W is not the answer, brushing a major problem under the rug will only send us backward. What we need is a strong presence in the both parties to make it a bigger issues so that we can effect change. I refuse to believe that we can’t find a way to reduce and eliminate abortion without making criminals of women who might be victims of crimes themselves. We need to fix what is broken, not just deny it exists.
My original point is that you are obviously not above influencing people with Obama facts and I thought that perhaps people who follow your blog would be interested to know that the alternative is someone who just flip-flops on the issue as he panders to the right wing.
And yes, I realize I am assuming it’s going to be Obama v McCain… :)
This is part of the problem, this polarzing of the issue. I consider myself pro-life. I abhor abortion and feel it is a huge injustice to women and their babies. However, in the case of rape, whether it is a woman by a stranger or a 12 year old child by her father I cannot find myself on the side of criminalizing them, they have been a victim once, nobody should force them to give birth to the fruit of that crime. (Isn’t that akin to what Hitler did?)
And we should be trying to fix the problem Fr. Joe, not dividing us even further into camps where we don’t belong.
And why on earth would you edit out my note on where people could find out the real facts on McCain if you don’t support him?
Fr. Joe,
Amen again!
The one true God doesn’t make mistakes……….WE MAKE THE MISTAKES!
No one on this earth is here by a “mistake” of another person. God planned each and every one of us before the foundations of the world.
He saw every rape, lustful act, marital act before Adam was ever created.
God has to give a soul to the “product of conception” regardless of how that act may have occured. It takes a woman of virtue to give birth to a child after having been raped. That’s an act of love and mercy and is also an unselfish act worthy of heroic recognition.
In the words of Archbishop Fulton Sheen:
“You cannot do evil that good may come from it.”
There’s no reason for anyone to violate the fifth commandment. There’s no reason for anyone to “reason” about it either. God laid out His rules very clearly.
So let me get this straight. You would have no problem with denying abortion (including morning after contraception) to an 11 year old girl who was raped by her father? What if carrying that baby would kill her? You are saying that legally, we should mandate that a child should possibly die after the crime of rape has been committed on her rather than keep abortion a legal option?
And yes, that is the extreme and unlikely scenario, but when we are talking about repealing laws we need to consider the extreme, the people on the edge of society, the disenfranchised. When we talk about euthanasia we need to consider those who cannot speak for themselves, with the death penalty we need to think of the innocent person that may be condemned rather than the guilty that probably deserve it. And with abortion we need to consider rape.
Yes, I believe abortion is an abomination but I feel there has to be another solution besides your stock ‘repeal R v W”, answer. Do you really think abortion will go away with a repeal? I know so many women who have had abortions and all of them would have made a different choice if they had the knowledge they now have. You speak of knowing someone who was the “fruit” of rape and yes, I would look into her eyes and tell her that it should have been her mother’s choice, because unless the sexual act is consensual then someone has been denied a basic human right. If the cost of my being here was my mother’s torment, rape, battery, I would be happy to know that she had the ability or choice to not carry me — I couldn’t justify my life at the expense of another.
Michael, what then of the zygote (the cells that are formed after a sperm and egg join) is expelled without implanting? What about miscarriage? Are those not God aborting human beings?
And if we are all planned, are you saying that God planned rape?
My point with euthanasia was that we need a law that prohibits it because of those who cannot speak for themselves. You are obviously very good at twisting words. I do respect life, my one wish is that we could educate every woman as to the real nature of abortion and that we would never have to have this discussion. But you will come to realize eventually that we have to change the way people think and act and that just taking away legal abortion isn’t going do that.
That you see no difference in a pregnancy created through rape and one created through love that might yield a deformed child is beyond me. Rape is a criminal act forced on a woman and nobody should have to risk their life or risk prosecution by procuring an illegal abortion because of a crime committed against them. This is all the more pertinent when the victim is a young child. I obviously cannot convince you of that however, but I do wonder how many hypocrites are reading this, people who take your stance on the issue but would happily allow their daughters to procure abortion, just like John McCain.
Glad you were able to speak for Michael; I hate when I leave a man speechless.
:)
Fr. Joe,
I agree with your on every point!
She already knows that the right way is to conform to what the church teaches on these matters and yet she’s the one complicating things by twisting words. The bottom line, which is VERY simple is this:
Our wills have to line up with God’s will and the only way that we can be absolutely certain about it is to adhere to the teachings of HIS church. It’s that simple.
Regarding zygotes:
GOD CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS BECAUSE HE’S THE BOSS!
God’s ways are so far above our ways as the heavens are above the earth.
Hey Martina,
I don’t need anyone to speak for me. I also think that Fr. Joe deserves more priestly respect from you. He didn’t have to post your comments, but he did in respect of your opinions and thoughts. He didn’t train for nine years of his life for nothing. The man knows more about sex, marriage, conception, prayer, the Catechism, the sacraments, and GOD than we’ll ever know. He has priestly graces and insights that are unique which you and I will never ever have.
He has the special grace of transforming bread and wine into the Sacred Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of God. Wow! Remember who it is that you’re trying to trip up.
Let’s say a prayer to St. Michael for Fr. Joe and also to end these terrible sins of the flesh.
Fr Joe: You seem like an intelligent man, how can you not see that just by making something illegal will not make it go away? Work for a solution, work with your church to address the issues that are causing so many of us to leave and even more of us to live duplicitous Catholic lives. (By that I mean the 95% of practicing Catholics who do not live in perfect accord with Rome; you know, all the women who receive communion while taking contraception and the husbands who agree to it, women who have had abortions they have not confessed to, etc.)
Michael, of the 15 priests that I have known personally in the past 30 years, 13 of them were guilty of not leading a true Catholic life in communion with Rome. That includes turning a blind eye to contraception, homosexuality, remarried people, breaking their vows of chastity/celibacy, living a life unbecoming of a humble priest (those who overindulge, be it food, drink or material things.) I can only hope the other 2 were as pristine as they appeared. I am glad that you find Fr. Joe to be a model of excellence, I don’t know him so I can’t make the same assumption and I’m sorry that you think my comments were designed to “trip” him up.
You will both be in my prayers. I do understand your points and would admire your determined stands except that I think we can accomplish more by trying to understand and correct the reason women chose abortion rather than making women more defensive and determined to do so by by burying the issue.
God bless you.
Talking about following rules and the natural law….animals don’t do to animals what humans do to humans, and it isn’t for lack of intellect.
I agree about our freedom. This country has become a “free for all”… a do whatever you feel like doing society. I also know that the American government needs to remove the word “United” from United States because there really isn’t any unity left in this country until a 9/11 happens. To truly claim to have unity, a governing body and people must have the Holy Spirit. That can only happen by genuine prayer and worship. How can we claim to have the Holy Spirit when only 1/3rd of the Christian population attends Mass or services every week? They also need to remove “in God we trust ” from our currency because we know how false that really is. We trust in $$$$$, self, and in objects, and NOT in God.
After 9/11, abortions slowed down considerably, many people went back to confession and to Mass too, but it didn’t last very long. Everyone had an American flag on display. Remember those days? Why did it stop?
Fr. Joe, I agree with your thoughts. We must put on the mind of Christ if we’re to experience any true freedom, in it’s purest sense. The country is divided which means that it’s being easily and systematically destroyed from within. This is why it’s so important that we, as a nation, turn our prayers to the Mother of God.
Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.
I suppose one would say its contradictory, but I am personally pro-life. One can believe its for God to judge, and Jesus taught us to be loving to one another. Of course, one may believe that also includes admonishing people for making certain choices, and trying to get them to make better choices. But one can do that, and also, love and forgive. Some might even say they go together on occasion :) Tough love.
On to the actual questions though:
What if a mother is in a untenable position because of her pregnancy complications?
a) What if theres an early pregnancy complication which has high degree of motherly fatality? And therefor the baby as well. Such as ectopic pregnancy.
b) What if the baby alone will not survive pregnancy? As such will be still-born, or die soon after birth. Such as “molar pregnancy”, anencephaly, etc.
c) What if there is a pregnancy disorder that usually comes in mid/late pregnancy, but will have severe, even fatal consequences for the mother? Such as HELLP (the only known effective treatment is to deliver the baby, luckily it usually comes late pregnancy).
There are different ways to go at this. One is to say that God gets to decide when we are called home, as was said with regards to miscarriages, and therefor one might apply that to b) saying they should still carry to term and let god called them home in his own time. One could apply this to the mother too, though in a), when there is no chance the baby will survive, one is letting God call two home.
No one is against medical intervention to ensure a pregnancy comes to fruition with a healthy baby and mommy, if possible. (if thats the wish of the mother it makes it easy). When one gets to under-age though, 12 year old girls… if we can intervene to ensure as healthy endings as possible there, why do we not do so in ectopic pregnancies? As for mid-late fatal pregnancy complications… to the mother it probably means a great deal on how far along (ie. if the baby is viable, or near viable), and what the treatments are. HELLP especially is sad, only effective treatment is delivery, and if happens before baby is viable, little chance of it surviving :( Of course it is rare, but it is potentially fatal or dehabilitating as it can cause liver failure.
Luckily these are rare, but in a population of 6 billion and counting it comes up fairly often if you count how long between occurrences instead of people affected :) I would find it hard to navigate those three situations (or other applicable examples similar), and I imagine most would whether they follow God or not.
I honestly don’t think those situations should be up for legislation, though abortion for other issues (socio-economic pressures for the most part) are certainly fair game for dialog, whether by politicians or clergy or lay people of various faiths/beliefs.
You prove what I have long argued. The Catholic church is full of it. It is a man-made religion that is antiquated in its thinking and hopelessly chauvinistic.
You cannot tell me that anything inside of a woman has rights! It is all a part of the woman. Next you will be saying that a bad kidney has rights and cannot be removed. Why don’t you argue for breast tumors while you are at it? It makes just as much sense.
You would force a poor 12 year old girl, forcibly raped by her sadistic father, to carry and to give birth to the fruit of his seed! If she is a small girl and it would cost her life, you say, too bad! You are the monster in all this and your church is an enemy of freedom and women.
I am not surprised, given how you priest-hypocrites assault children to satisfy your lusts. I bet plenty of priests have had their bastard children aborted. I have even read that priests and nuns have sex and bury their babies alive in the basement of convents! So much for being moral teachers and pro-life!
The real pro-life person protects the quality and substance of the mother’s life. CHOICE has to be preserved if women are to be spared the manipulation of men and a church that makes the female a second-class human being and citizen.
You give the same rights to something the size of a pin-head as that which belongs to a real adult human being. You are insane. Your friend Michael is also crazy.
Martina, if you are in trouble, don’t you hesitate to go to a clinic and take care of the problem. Tell this priest to go to hell and to keep his twisted opinions to himself. My church respects women’s choice and leave the matter of abortion between a woman and her doctor. Consider becoming Episcopalian!
Martina, there is no talking to these bigots.
Thank you for an example of ANTI-CATHOLICISM 101.
You are the REAL bigot!
Hey Katie,
Why would you even bother making a post like this on a Catholic blog if you claim to hate the Catholic church? Oh, and by the way, the Catholic church is far from being “man made.”
If your brilliant mind could tell you anything, it should say that Christ established His Catholic church through St. Peter. He did. If you own a Bible you could find that portion in the New Testament.That’s how man made the Catholic church is. You’re making comments on things that you have zero knowledge of. I hope you feel intimidated now. You should.
I also hope you meet and marry a fine Catholic man to straighten out your “crazy” mind.
Go Fr. Joe!
Fr. Joe,
I like this blog very much because I value your insights and teachings. I’ve been on Catholic blogs before and left them because of people like her. Is it possible for you not to post anti-Catholic or offensive posts in the future?
Her thoughts and words aren’t charitable and don’t deserve to be posted. Those of us gifted by faith know who it really is.
I would like to ask Miss Katie why she even bothered visiting this website, is it to find fault and rip to shreds the priesthood and the Catholic church?
As for calling all clergy lustful child molestors….ENOUGH already. The majority of priests are good and faithful to their calling…yet they still are broken creatures like us all. We are all sinners and no one ever said that priests are exempt from it…only our Lord was perfect. We all must stand before God one day and account for every single one of our thoughts, words, and actions. THe fallen priests will, and yes, even YOU Katie! (who tells a priest to go to hell.) Shame on you. And how dare you compare a fetus to a kidney! Read Psalm 139 honey.
I am sick of all of this anti-Catholic bashing.
Happy Episcopalianism, enjoy your freedoms and picking and choosing what suits you and your lifestyle…..and on your own terms of course. You don’t want a Catholic point of view??…then don’t bother stopping by here anymore.
Sierra,
I think that your remarks say a alot about your faith. Yes, there are ligitimate exceptions to everything. What we’re talking about here is abortion on demand. It reduces the dignity of humanity which was created by God to be sacred. Consider the mind of St. Gianna Beretta Mola. She could have abused her gift of free will by chosing to have an abortion. her mind was on God and her unborn child. She knew that abortion was intrinsically evil and wrong, even in the midst of her illness. Her daughter, the one for whom she sacrificed her own life, Dr. Gianna Emanuela Mola, is a physician in Italy. Jesus said that there is no greater love than that.
When the church is in turmoil over such things, God sends His greatest saints.
In the pinnacle of the anti-abortion and pro- life movement comes the canonization of Gianna Beretta Mola. In the pinnacle of the priest scandal comes the canonization of Padre Pio of Pietrelcina. When the world was looking for the return of the just judge in Y2K, along comes the canonization of the apostle of Divine Mercy….Sister Faustina.
There are no coincidences when it come to matters of the church. God is still in full command and sends His the greatest saints in times of crisis. We need to thank God for all of this because it’s become an opportunity for all of us to practice heroic virtue.
He has no secret disciples.
God bless all of you
Love, “crazy Mike”
Janine,
You’re the best! You go girl!!!!
Your brother
Crazy Mike
Martina,
Regarding your remarks about the priests in your comment #16:
“of the 15 priests that I have known personally in the past 30 years, 13 of them were guilty of not leading a true Catholic life in communion with Rome. That includes turning a blind eye to contraception, homosexuality, remarried people, breaking their vows of chastity/celibacy, living a life unbecoming of a humble priest (those who overindulge, be it food, drink or material things.) I can only hope the other 2 were as pristine as they appeared.”
Thank God that you have the wisdom to know the difference.
Priests are physicians of the soul. Yes, there are some bad eggs there JUST as there are bad eggs in every profession. Those guys who did wrong will have to answer and they know it. They’ve failed miserably because of their fallen human nature…..just like the rest of us. I hope that you never experience a flood as a result of the work of an inept plumber or God forbid, a quack at a hospital emergency room.
THE OFFICE OF THE PRIEST MUST ALWAYS BE RESPECTED above all others because of the graces and merits given to it by God.
It’s a unique office unto itself. No one, other than a priest, has the ability to change bread and wine into God Himself. This is why satan is using ill informed and sinful people to attack the priesthood unceasingly. If this weren’t true, then the priesthood and the church wouldn’t be under these kinds of vicious attacks today. Admit that it’s true.
Our hope is in what Jesus told Peter: “the gates of hell will not prevail against it”
History has proven Him correct time and time again.
What about those poor priests who were genuinely innocent of those aweful charges? Sounds to me like other Jesus’s on the cross….blamed for something that they didn’t do.
I’m sure that if you were on your death bed and Fr. Joe came a knockin on your door with Viaticum, you wouldn’t send him away now….. would you?
God uses broken vessels to carry water. I know because I’m one of them.
God bless you and I’ll pray for you too.
Crazy Mike
Katie,
first, no I am not “in trouble” and wouldn’t view a pregnancy as such, it would be a joy and blessing. I actually believe as women we have plenty of choice without abortion except in the case of rape where our choice is taken away. When we have unprotected sex, we are making the choice to possibly become pregnant. When did we decide that we could become pregnant and then chose? How did our babies become disposable? How can you compare an embryo or fetus to an organ, a fetus can survive from 22+ weeks and last time I checked your kidney will never develop its own nervous system and heart?
And while I don’t believe that un-implanted zygote is a human being I do believe that life starts when it implants and starts to form a nervous system and heart. While I can understand why women are confused by early term abortions I cannot fathom how we cannot see late term abortion as murder when a functioning child is born.
How we got here I don’t know, I am sure the good Fr. will say it starts where I am now — allowing a crack in the law for rape victims, but I’d have to tell him that’s not true. When I was 20 years younger I was completely pro-choice (and a practicing catholic) and had no doubt that abortion should be legal and a valid choice. It is only with education of what the procedure is that I have changed.
Michael, when I said I knew 15 priest well and only 13 were in communion with Rome I didn’t mean it was always a bad thing. I have great respect for the priests I know who understand the contraception issue and the plight of remarried couples and homosexuals. I have nothing but compassion for priests who struggle and fail in their vows of celibacy, I don’t judge them and as it was not something that Jesus mandated I see nothing wrong with priests who stray. These are all priests who don’t place themselves on a par with God and presume to know what God wants like Fr. Joe and yourself, but rather they walk hand in hand with Jesus who I think would have more than a few words of reprimand for the Vatican if he were around.
There were a few that I knew who were very materialistic and self-indulgent, no doubt as escapes mechanisms, these were the ones I had less empathy for as they had lost their humility. To this day I have the displeasure of being at events for a third world relief agency where one 250+ pound priest gorges himself in gluttonous rapture, the irony of kills me. I once told him a saying of my mothers and he almost choked in fury “never trust a skinny cook or a fat priest”.
On that note I will say I have nothing but admiration for Father Joe for keeping this blog open and allowing comments from all when he could indeed censure them. While we may disagree I have no doubt his heart is in the right place.
RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE (Donum Vitae)
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger Prefect (Pope Benedict)
From the moment of conception, the life of every human being is to be respected in an absolute way because man is the only creature on earth that God has wished for himself[16] and the spiritual soul of each man is “immediately created” by God[17]; his whole being bears the image of the Creator. Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves “the creative action of God”[18] and it remains forever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end.[19] God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can, in any circumstance, claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being.[20]
This Congregation is aware of the current debates concerning the beginning of human life, concerning the individuality of the human being and concerning the identity of the human person. The Congregation recalls the teachings found in the Declaration on Procured Abortion: From the time that the ovum is fertilized, a new life is begun which is neither that of the father nor of the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth. It would never be made human if it were not human already. To this perpetual evidence. . . modern genetic science brings valuable confirmation. It has demonstrated that, from the first instant, the program is fixed as to what this living being will be: a man, this individual�man with his characteristic aspects already well determined. Right from fertilization is begun the adventure of a human life, and each of its great capacities requires time…to find its place and to be in a position to act.[25] This teaching remains valid and is further confirmed, if confirmation were needed, by recent findings of human biological science which recognize that in the zygote (The zygote is the cell produced when the nuclei of the two gametes have fused.) resulting from fertilization the biological identity of a new human individual is already constituted.
Certainly no experimental datum can be in itself sufficient to bring us to the recognition of a spiritual soul; nevertheless, the conclusions of science regarding the human embryo provide a valuable indication for discerning by the use of reason a personal presence at the moment of this first appearance of a human life: how could a human individual not be a human person? The Magisterium has not expressly committed itself to an affirmation of a philosophical nature, but it constantly reaffirms the moral condemnation of any kind of procured abortion. This teaching has not been changed and is unchangeable.[26]
Thus the fruit of human generation, from the first moment of its existence, that is to say from the moment the zygote has formed, demands the unconditional respect that is morally due to the human being in his bodily and spiritual totality. The human being is to be respected and treated as a person from the moment of conception; and therefore from that same moment his rights as a person must be recognized, among which in the first place is the inviolable right of every innocent human being to life.
To use human embryos or fetuses as the object or instrument of experimentation constitutes a crime against their dignity as human beings having a right to the same respect that is due to the child already born and to every human person.
The Charter of the Rights of the Family published by the Holy See affirms: “Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo.”[30] The practice of keeping human embryos alive in vivo or in vitro for experimental or commercial purposes is totally opposed to human dignity.
In the case of experimentation that is clearly therapeutic, namely, when it is a matter of experimental forms of therapy used for the benefit of the embryo itself in a final attempt to save its life, and in the absence of other reliable forms of therapy, recourse to drugs or procedures not yet fully tested can be licit.[31]
The corpses of human embryos and fetuses, whether they have been deliberately aborted or not, must be respected just as the remains of other human beings. In particular, they cannot be subjected to mutilation or to autopsies if their death has not yet been verified and without the consent of the parents or of the mother. Furthermore, the moral requirements must be safeguarded, that there be no complicity in deliberate abortion and that the risk of scandal be avoided. Also, in the case of dead fetuses, as for the corpses of adult persons, all commercial trafficking must be considered illicit and should be prohibited.
It is part of the duty of the public authority to ensure that the civil law is regulated according to the fundamental norms of the moral law in matters concerning human rights, human life and the institution of the family. Politicians must commit themselves, through their interventions upon public opinion, to securing in society the widest possible consensus on such essential points and to consolidating this consensus wherever it risks being weakened or is in danger of collapse.
In many countries, the legalization of abortion and juridical tolerance of unmarried couples makes it more difficult to secure respect for the fundamental rights recalled by this instruction. It is to be hoped that states will not become responsible for aggravating these socially damaging situations of injustice. It is rather to be hoped that nations and states will realize all the cultural, ideological and political implications connected with the techniques of artificial procreation and will find the wisdom and courage necessary for issuing laws which are more just and more respectful of human life and the institution of the family.
The civil legislation of many states confers an undue legitimization upon certain practices in the eyes of many today; it is seen to be incapable of guaranteeing that morality which is in conformity with the natural exigencies of the human person and with the “unwritten laws” etched by the Creator upon the human heart. All men of good will must commit themselves, particularly within their professional field and in the exercise of their civil rights, to ensuring the reform of morally unacceptable civil laws and the correction of illicit practices. In addition, “conscientious objection” vis-a-vis such laws must be supported and recognized. A movement of passive resistance to the legitimization of practices contrary to human life and dignity is beginning to make an ever sharper impression upon the moral conscience of many, especially among specialists in the biomedical sciences.
Martina,
Regarding your words:
I have nothing but compassion for priests who struggle and fail in their vows of celibacy, I DON’T JUDGE them and as it was not something that Jesus mandated.
then in the next paragraph:
There were a few that I knew who were very materialistic and self-indulgent, no doubt as escapes mechanisms, these were the ones I had less empathy for as they had lost their humility. To this day I have the displeasure of being at events for a third world relief agency where one 250+ pound priest gorges himself in gluttonous rapture, the irony of kills me. I once told him a saying of my mothers and he almost choked in fury “never trust a skinny cook or a fat priest”.
You contradict yourself because you are being judgmental. What makes you think that you can read souls? You can’t.
What’s does being “fat” have to do with being a “bad” priest?” Priests are allowed to be fat, in fact they can be however God made them to be. By the way, most of the Popes were “fat” too. Aren’t they allowed to have hypoactive thryroids either? Aren’t they humans before they’re priests? Tell me that you never over ate in your life either.
Regarding your other remarks, Jesus is “around” and closer than you think.
I also don’t presume to know anything and nor do I see myself as a a broom behind the door either. I try very hard to conform my will to God’s will by obeying what He commands and teaches through his church. All that He expects is an honest effort.
Now getting back to Obama and his attitude toward abortion. I will never vote for him because of his politically correct stance on abortion. It doesn’t make sense to vote for a man in favor of death, openly or not. The leader of the free world must be Pro-life. It takes a real man to openly admit that abortion is murder. That it is.
God already wrote that law on his “unknowing” soul.
Thanks Father Joe. Very well stated.
Sen. McCain has voted in favour of embryonic stem-cell research. There is no getting around that.
However, in almost every other instance he has consistently supported the “pro-life” cause.
The National Abortion Rights Action League finds he agrees with it only 4% of the time.
Sen. Obama is rated 100% “pro-choice” by the same organization.
Douglas W. Kmiec
http://www.slate.com/id/2184378/pagenum/all/
McCain and Huckabee—unlike either of the Democrats—join in the Catholic prayer for the unborn, but Republican promises have often left those prayers unanswered. While no papal instruction will ever condone the “right to choose,” the church does ask for a consistent and realistic defense of life that actually takes steps to reduce the incidence of the practice, not just condemns it. Catholics will note that McCain and Huckabee’s pro-life postures collapse when it comes to the death penalty.
Beyond life issues, an audaciously hope-filled Democrat like Obama is a Catholic natural. Anyone seeking “liberty and justice for all” really can’t be satisfied with racially segregated public schools that don’t teach. And there’s something deeply hypocritical about being a nation of immigrants that won’t welcome any more of them.
So instead, some Catholics may be hoping for a Huckabee miracle. Southern Baptists and Catholics haven’t always gotten along, but there is something just downright Knights of Columbus-friendly about the guy—squirrel-roasting aside.
So, here’s the thing: John McCain will have many Catholics in the pews a little while longer, but more than a few of us are thinking of giving him up for Lent. Reagan used to say that he didn’t leave the Democratic Party, it left him. The launch of “Reaganites for Obama” might not be far behind.
Michael, I don’t contradict myself, there is a difference between judging someone and holding them in disdain. And God doesn’t make one fat, in 99.9% of the cases overeating makes us fat, only a few people can legitimately use that thyroid excuse. I really don’t care if a priest is fat or not for the most part, I notice more when that priest is on the board of a relief agency and asking me for money to feed starving children while he stuffs grotesque amounts of food and wine into his mouth. Someone working in that arena should be aware that gluttony is not the best model to use for combating starvation..
You say you won’t vote for Obama, who then will you vote for if it comes down to him or McCain?
Ted: Besides his record on stem cell research he has stated that he would allow his daughter to chose an abortion, that it’s her choice. He is not being honest on the issue, or is it ok for him to believe abortion is ok as long as he has voting record against it? Hypocrite of the highest order, no doubt whatsoever. This latest revelation about his close ties with a lobbyist shows that not much has changed since the old with McCain.
“Democratic Party, it left him. The launch of “Reaganites for Obama” might not be far behind”
Reaganites for Obama has a fine ring to it and a “Huckabee miracle” could only be a blessing for the Dems, hopefully with Obama heading the ticket.
I’d like to know how we went from Senator Obama’s stance on Abortion to people making themselves fat. 99.9% of overeaters getting fat is just your opinion, unless that came from France or from the Orient. If that were true then 99.9% of all people would be fat or morbidly obese and we know that’s untrue. Most people over eat. My wife’s 60 year old cousin is as skinny as a rail and eats like an elephant. Everyone’s metabolism isn’t the same. I think it better to correlate weight gain with age because the metabolism generally slows down as a person gets older. I also believe that people eat less as they get older.
I’m not voting because there’s no one in this election worthy of my vote.
I can’t stand the thought of the Clinton’s back in the White House either
you’re not alone
I’d like to know how we went from Senator Obama’s stance on Abortion to people making themselves fat.
I know how I got there, hypocrisy. I stated early on that I’d rather a pro-choice candidate who was honest, to a pro-life candidate who was on record for saying he would allow his daughter the right to chose.
The same goes for priests who are sticklers to the Catholic doctrine and yet forget that gluttony is a sin.
The priest in question is a constant source of irritation to me because he can, while eating large quantities of food, tell me why I should raise money for babies that are dying in the third world and he can also tell me why contraception should not be available to women there.
Michael, there may be nobody pro-life worthy of your vote but why not at least help elect a candidate who can effect real change and then use your voice for the changes you want?
Fr Joe, — feel free to edit this – I really didn’t mean to offend you, I honestly did not know you had a weight issue. I have helped many people lose weight, medical doctors are not always educated in nutrition so feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Fr. Joe,
I’m sorry that you felt my remarks were made on a personal level. They weren’t because I don’t know you personally nor have I ever seen you. I realize that people have serious health issues, which should never be taken lightly. No one needs to be informed of specific details either, especially in this forum.
It’s still suffering none the less, and I’ll offer up my Rosary for you tonight.
A PAID POLITICAL ANNOUNCEMENT BY SEN. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA (D- ILL)
My fellow Identity-Americans:
As your future president I want to thank my supporters, for their… well, support.
Your mindless support of me, despite my complete lack of any legislative achievement, my pastor’s relations with Louis Farrakhan and Libyan dictator Moamar Quadafi, or my blatantly leftist voting record while I present myself as some sort of bi-partisan agent of change.
I also like how my supporters claim my youthful drug use and criminal behavior somehow qualifies me for the Presidency after 8 years of claiming Bush’s youthful drinking disqualifies him. Your hypocrisy is a beacon of hope shining over a sea of political posing.
I would also like to thank the Kennedys for coming out in support of me. There’s a lot of glamour behind the Kennedy name, even though JFK started the Vietnam War, his brother Robert illegally wiretapped Martin Luther King Jr. and Teddy killed a teenage girl. And I’m not going anywhere near the cousins, both literally and figuratively.
And I’d like to thank Oprah Winfrey for her support. Her love of meaningless empty platitudes will be the force that propels me to the White House.
Americans should vote for me, not because of my lack of experience or achievement, but because I make people feel good. Voting for me causes some white folk to feel relieved of their imagined, racist guilt.
I say things that sound meaningful, but don’t really mean anything because Americans are tired of things having meaning. If things have meaning, then that means you have to think about them.
Americans are tired of thinking.
It’s time to shut down the brain, and open up the heart.
So when you go to vote in the primaries, remember don’t think, just do.
And do it for me.
Thank You.
Sen. B. Hussein Obama
I’m an Obama girl and my man throttled Hillary Clinton, again, Tuesday night.
Suddenly, the impossible is real.
Suddenly, I’m nervous. Very nervous, actually.
I’m nervous because an otherwise normal grownup told me yesterday she’s watched the will.i.am (Black Eyed Peas) “Yes We Can” Obama video about 100 times and gets “weepy” every time.
I’m nervous because a longtime political type, normally quite cynical, now waxes rhapsodic about Obama’s “cool.”
“He’s elegant, controlled, the best-dressed candidate ever,” he says. Never a red tie, yellow or bright blue. No, Obama does a subdued lean charcoal gray suit with a gray or silvery tie. Everything muted, measured, fluid. “He floats onto the stage, a bit of the Fred Astaire thing going.”
Fred Astaire?
This same man, 100 percent anti-illegal aliens, fears Obama could pull a Reagan or a JFK on the Mexican border, head down there, chanting, “Tear down this wall!” or even do an “Ich bin ein Tijuana!!!”
He’s with Obama anyway.
I’m nervous because Harvard political genius Elaine Kamarck told me Hillary understands the various messes we’re in far better than Obama.
Suppose Kamarck’s right?
I’m nervous about the “O’Bambi” factor. Will the terrorists move in next door when Obama’s in the White House?
I’m nervous because Michelle Obama, about whom I just wrote a fawning puff piece, now says that until her husband’s stunning ascendancy, she’s never before been proud of America. Huh?
Barack now claims she didn’t mean it. Oh, yes she did. We all know the insufferable, holier-than-thou, Blame-America-First types who lecture the unwashed from the rarefied air of Cambridge and Brookline.
If I wanted lecturing, I’d be with Hillary.
I’m nervous because too many Obama-philes sound like Moonies, or Hare Krishnas, or the Hale-Bopp-Is-Coming-To-Get-Me nuts.
These true believers “Obama-ize” everything. They speak Obama-ese. Knit for Obama. Run for Obama. Gamble – Hold ’Em Barack! – for Obama. They make Obama cakes, underwear, jewelry. They send Valentine cards reading, “I want to Barack your world!”
At campaign rallies people scream, cry, even faint as Obama calmly calls for the EMTs. When supporters pant en masse, “I love you!” (like The Beatles, circa 1964), Barack says, “I love you back” with that deliciously charming, almost cocky smile.
Oh – I’m nervous because it’s all gone to his head and he hasn’t even won yet.
I’m nervous because it’s gone to a lot of other people’s heads as well. Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings introduced Obama last week in Baltimore and said, “This is not a campaign for president of the United States, this is a movement to change the world.”
“He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere,” says George Clooney.
“I’ll do whatever he says to do,” says actress Halle Berry. “I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.”
I’m nervous because nobody’s quite sure what Obama stands for, even his supporters. (“I can’t wait to see,” said actress/activist Susan Sarandon, declaring full support nonetheless).
I’m nervous because even his biggest fans can’t name Obama’s accomplishments, including Texas state Sen. Kirk Watson, an Obama-man who humiliated himself when MSNBC’s Chris Matthews asked him about five times to name something, anything, Obama’s done. Watson hemmed. Watson hawed. Watson gave up.
I’m nervous because John McCain says Obama’s is “an eloquent but empty call for change” and in the wee, wee hours, a nagging voice whispers, suppose McCain’s right, too? Then what?
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1074977
Fr. Joe,
I’ll mention you by name to St. Luke from now on because I do care about your welfare.
Your remarks about yourself are very humble, and no doubt pleasing to God.
People do and say things for different reasons, which brings us back to the topic of this forum. I think that all of us here are blessed because of our gifts of faith and wisdom, which help us to substantiate right from wrong and truth from falsehood. This is a different country than what it was when Bishop Sheen was popular. The country was more united back then. Things were much more simpler and evils less tolerated. Most people had great value structures and held the same moral opinions in those days, unlike today. I try to imagine a President being elected by landslide in our day. I realize that’s ideal but not real. Recent Presidential elections weren’t won by much and I don’t expect that this one will conclude differently either.
I feel deep down that God gives nations what they deserve, for example the rise and leadership of Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany.
Germany was divided and destroyed by the end of WW2 and Hitler did himself in.
When people continue to live disobediently, God will never reward them with anything good(the fall in the garden). That’s not the nature of God. He told us that the wages of sin is death. In my opinion, this is why religious vocations are dropping dramatically in our pagan world. God will never reward us with good vocations because we chose to stray. People today aren’t interested in seeing good and faithful young men and women enter religious life. The world sees it as an unrewarding life and wasteful. Those of us with faith know how false that sentiment really is. All that we can continue to do is to be lights in darkness. It doesn’t take much light to drive out alot of darkness either.
Think of the smallness of a laser beam. It’s so small, yet it has the capacity to cut through steel. That’s our faith.
[...] on SENATOR OBAMA ON ABORTION by Obama Cult February 23rd, 2008 hotlineblog wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptI’m an Obama girl and my man [...]
Post 40: I also like how my supporters claim my youthful drug use and criminal behavior somehow qualifies me for the Presidency after 8 years of claiming Bush’s youthful drinking disqualifies him.
Of course, there is no difference in a young teenager failing prey to drugs during a struggle to figure out his heritage and an adult Bush being arrested for DUI when in his 30′s, no, that was a fair comparison. Bush can’t even be honest about his drug experimentation.
Good grief, to print this sort of rubbish is ridiculous and childish. The more I read of junk like the more I am convinced that I am making the right choice in voting for Obama.
I for one, am glad he Obama is not “experienced” in the type of politics practiced by all of the other candidates. I for one, am impressed most by his honesty – both on issues that are hot-button like abortion and about his history with drugs as a teen.
41 Obama cult
Hardly a cult. Just people who are so sick and tired of dishonesty and politics as usual that we are embracing change. The only sad thing I see about this issue is that he is the only candidate who stands out as a real choice for so many.
Folks, at this point it’s scary no matter who gets the key to the Whitehouse.
This country is suffering from serious moral illness and needs a desperate spiritual shot in the arm. I’d like to see every TV in this country at the curbstone on trash day.
WHAT?????????????????????????????????????? I can’t believe he wrote that Martha!
Yes, I know that you don’t want to hear that, but any of us with a mustard seed size of faith know that it’s the satan’s tabernacle. It’s already ruined the country and now we have the internet……satan’s telephone.
Think of the poor old folks that didn’t have a TV, phone, or computer. They were too busy praying, working, taking care of people and minding their own business.
Weren’t they were better off than we are with our 6 figure incomes and cell phones?
You bet!
McCain has the Republican nominaton in the bag.
Let us make Texas count!
McCain cannot beat Obama, all the pollsters say that an election today would have him 9 points ahead of McCain.
However, the same pollsters say that an election between McCain and Clinton is too close to call, virtually dead even. Hey, we can work with that!
Texas is an open primary, let us take advantage of that. We need Republicans in large numbers to vote for Hillary Clinton! We can beat her. She is a traditional politician, as boring as our own McCain. Obama is a phenomenon that must be stopped.
Vote Hillary first and then vote McCain afterwards!
Vote for Hillary, at least we have a good chance in beating her in November!
Barack Hussein Obama is the ANTICHRIST!
The number of the Beast is 666!
B = 02
A = 01
R = 18
A = 01
C = 03
K = 11
First = 36 = 6 x 6 (see the hint in his first name)
H = 08
U = 21
S = 19
S = 19
E = 05
I = 09
N = 14
(notice it is a Muslim name, not Christian!)
O = 15
B = 02
A = 01
M = 13
A = 01
Middle & Last = 95 + 32 = 127 = 6 x 21.1666
First & Middle & Last 163 = 6 x 27.1666
The man of perdition has cast his spell over millions!
He has come seemingly out of nowhere!
Look how unlikely this scenerio is: in a racial-and-gender-divided America, a black man with a Muslim father and a terrorist’s name should be the overwhelming frontrunner for president of the United States at this time in history!
He is squarely opposed to efforts to stop abortion, partial birth abortion, morning after pills, etc.
He is on the record against parental notification for minors seeking abortion, supports homosexual civil unions, and wants America’s military to retreat back to our own borders.
Nevertheless, prolifers, Republicans, and other conservatives and moderates have joined Democrats, liberals and pro-choicers in their support and worship of this man.
He is hailed as the second coming.
He kisses and blesses babies.
Next, he will be offering healings and raising the dead.
He will offer a caricature of the true messiah’s saving work and ministry.
The kingdom of Obama is coming!
Israel beware!
“PLEASE NOTE that I am not telling anyone for whom they should or should not vote and this post is entirely personal, representing no organization or church.”
Normally, I would say that line is the typical bs we can expect. The “Oh, I am not telling you who to vote for” for legal cover – head faking intentional deception we have come to expect from good “Christians.”
Like when the right wing handed out 30 million “voter scorecards” in “Christian” churches across the country for Bush 41 in 1988 claiming they were not telling anyone for whom to vote. You know when the right was really in its infancy at becoming a movement rooted in deception.
You know, those “scorecards” that Sun Myung Moon had printed up for Bush at no charge when Moon was working to raise up the Christian right for political power, a chore he says is his based on his being the Messiah.
http://www.mediachannel.org/originals/moontranscript.shtml
Of course we all know what the Moon instructions were telling the Christians he was “sent” here to lead to do and who to vote for… You know Father Joe, the same Moon who funded the Bushes, Falwell, LaHaye and created the Washington Times to successfully manipulate our political system. You know, Moon, the one who spent billions in overseas swindled cash to promote this right wing horror the world is forced to deal with today, the same guy who is working to subvert the RCC today with his manipulated and deceived pawn, Milingo.
But I won’t say that here for I know you are too smart to support McCain and 100 years of slaughter in Iraq and the March into Iran.
I am certain you have a balanced look at this and would not just ignore the people conservatives feel it is their duty to kill as “good Christians.” Certainly you have looked and rated the living children who will die at the hands of the right wing war mongers who comprise today’s Republican Party as just as important.
Or do living, breathing children just not rate with the anti choice crowd? I am sure they do to you but you won’t think about them when you vote, will you?
As for anyone joining the right’s “frame Obama’s backers as a cult so you can ignore him” frame – all I can say is look at today’s Moon molded conservative movement which is as cult like as anything going today. A group tens of millions, living in a trained, conditioned, false reality Rush and Robertson has built for them.
Have any of you listened to religious radio? Talk about a conditioned reality-free world. Frightening, truly frightening. How long do you think the republic can stand when half it citizens live in a false reality, seriously? But hey, they are against abortion so who cares if everything else they think is pure fantasy and the people they back continue to take the world to hell.
Seriously, are you proud that all those innocent people were slaughtered in Iraq? Or have you so conditioned your minds that they do not matter, for you and only you are doing God’s will, so your actions are always right? That is how moonies think.
Obama is the Anti-Christ. This is the evidence:
1. He will come as a man of Peace.
Obama promises peace in Iraq even if it means defeat for The United States and that our men and women died in vain!
2. He will come mounted on a white female horse.
Obama’s mother is white and had six African husbands!
3. He will come to deceive.
Obama official claims Christianity, but in truth he is a Muslim who practices Islam, keeps its laws and prays facing Mecca.
4. He will make himself the most powerful man on earth.
Obama will become the ruler of the world if elected president of the U.S.
5. He will try to destroy the Jewish People and Israel.
Obama admits love for Arabs and Palestinians while exhibiting hatred for Jews. An American retreat from the Middle East will abandon Israel to her enemies. As an intellectual he has written admiringly of how Hitler came to power and his strive for world unification.
6. He will present himself as good and righteous but in fact he’s Satan himself.
Do you see how coldly he treated the prolife protestors? Notice how he spurns the Bush administration, as if they are the true enemy. Despite appearances, violence is in his heart. He will have his way, or else!
7. Obama will make friends with Al Qaida and thus helip in its evil projects.
8. Barack Hussein Obama is the “King of the South” predicted in the Bible. (Daniel 11, Kenya is south of Jerusalem).
9. Obama comes to impose Islamic “Sharia” Law upon America.
Beware! Obama is the Anti-Christ!
Watch him and don’t let you be deceived by Him.
Who supports Obama?
1.5 billion Muslims, Oprah, Louis Farrakahn, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and all American Muslims.
Do not be deceived!
“Of course we all know what the Moon instructions were telling the Christians he was “sent” here to lead to do and who to vote for..”
should read
Of course we all know what Moon’s instructions were – telling the Christians to vote for people who push for a more theocratic union.
Obama a cult?
scroll down here for a post in that.
http://realsunmyungmoon.blogspot.com/
“I will never vote for him because of his politically correct stance on abortion. It doesn’t make sense to vote for a man in favor of death, openly or not.”
But you will vote for the Republican war mongers.
Did the Lord sweep in and remove all the mirrors from Christain’s homes?
“FATHER JOE: These numbers mean nothing.”
“FATHER JOE: Posting this comment might actually help Obama. This is crazy stuff, like those who try to make Cheney or the Pope into the anti-Christ. Get some help!”
I don’t envy you here, FJ, but this is the Republican Party’s base. This is what the conservative movement has become. Racists, bigots and reality free folks who have been conditioned like Moonies to believe they are personally doing the work of the Lord – so get out of their way.
Those comment are not isolated, I see and hear them all the time. it’s mainstream conservatism. You should see the reality free Obama hate mail I get from these fine “Christains.” It is forwardwed more than the “Hillary spit on the Gold Star Mothers” bs they have been conditioned to believe.
Truly frightening.
Then they wonder why people are critical of the Christian right.
I seriouly wonder how many right wing Christains actually know the MAJOR role the “Messiah” Moon has played in moldoing there political movement.
And they are still on the “lookout” for any anti Christ who “may” lead them astray.
He already has.
#49 You can also justify murder and other sins with the Bible if you try hard enough. I’m not in favor of the man’s Presidential bid either, but I wouldn’t go that far. People said that Bush was the Anti-Christ too. I say that the world is full of them.
Woooooooooh,
This is getting too deep for me.
I’ll see ya later…………………maybe
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
[...] on SENATOR OBAMA ON ABORTION by Mad Republican February 23rd, 2008 unknown wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptWe need Republicans in large numbers [...]
“The question lately has been, does this cult use others exclusively or have others like disgruntled Catholic clergy and right-wing Republicans used the Moonies?”
Only people who do not know Moon and his goals and want to “act” like they got the best of Moon to ease their soul selling minds try to push this. It is as silly as thinking the republican party used him.
Moon is so far ahead of people who think they know him it really is silly. In fact he has done mostly what he wanted here, he got the right to give him huge face around the world. he has now rolled all his eggs into the culmination of his life long plot, the Universal Peace Federation. Cardinal Hummes met with the UPF recently.
http://archive.upf.org/upf/tour2006/nations/index.php?report_id=814&event_id=195
Thanks to years of conservative’s mainstreaming and selling the nation on this con that ALL Moon fronts are not integral to his plans, black ministers and through them liberals now send letters of support to this organization.
Everything Moon does from here on in can be attributed in no small part to the religious right empowering him around the world by “accepting him” (see John 5:43) as player to bring them power. They had to have him. Use him? hahah.
They would not have done it without his billions and fronts. If anyone is foolish enough to think he had no plan and that the right fell for it, well, that is why you have been mislead, it is done, you cannot see. You are biblically blind.
Moon runs cirlces around the right’s leaders. Now he has his claws in everything.
You ever see him introduced around the world as the “owner of the presitgous Washington Times” or see his head USA pastor waving the WT around at the Moon’s second generation kids as he tells them how “centered on the most patriotic paper in America” Moon has been declared the messiah by Jesus, God and Muhammed? Even Paul wrote a letter declaring the arrival of the messiah in the form of Moon – had to be true to these kids, it was written in the Washington Times. A letter form paul declareing Moon the messiah, anyone read 2Thess Chapt 2?
Did anyone think that they and they alone would not fall for it?
100 years?
google “100 years in iraq mccain”
[...] Gerald Augustinus wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptBarack Hussein Obama is the ANTICHRIST! The number of the Beast is 666! B = 02. A = 01. R = 18. A = 01. C = 03. K = 11. First = 36 = 6 x 6 (see the hint in his first name). H = 08. U = 21. S = 19. S = 19. E = 05. I = 09. N = 14 … Read the rest of this great post here Posted by [...]
[...] on SENATOR OBAMA ON ABORTION by Bible Thumper February 23rd, 2008 americana83 wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptObama will make friends with Al Qaida [...]
Fr. Joe,
I thought that I was finished posting BUT,
what is he/she talking about?????
MOON….STARS???????
Don’t waste your precious energy, time, and wisdom on something like this. You’ve been more than patient, and I think it’s time to cut them loose.
I thought that we were talking about a Presidential candidate’s stance on abortion, not astrology.
Fr. Joe,
Thank you for your very eloquent words with regard to the dignity of the human person from conception to death. You have explained the Church’s position with great sensitivity to the nuances of the issues. I found your words very comforting. It’s good to see someone defending these important values – and especially good to see someone defending them in a holistic way (that is, you’re not “just” pro-life in an anti=abortion sense – you support a consistent pro-life ethic).
God bless you.
~~~Siobhán
Fr. Joe,
I second Siobhán comments;
Thank you for your very eloquent words with regard to the dignity of the human person from conception to death. You have explained the Church’s position “(added, the Baptist Church also)” with great sensitivity to the nuances of the issues. I found your words very comforting. It’s good to see someone defending these important values – and especially good to see someone defending them in a holistic way (that is, you’re not “just” pro-life in an anti=abortion sense – you support a consistent pro-life ethic).
God bless you.
David Dean
for #53 Y
I’m not a “war monger” in fact I was adamantly against the Iraqi war from the beginning.
Where are those weapons of mass destruction?
They’re in the American government waiting to be elected Preseident.
I’m not voting for anyone because there’s no one worth voting for, as far as I’m concerned.
By the way, the word is spelled CHRISTIAN
Ciao Paisano!
From Fr. Frank Pavone
National Director of Priests for Life.
What if you don’t feel you can vote for either candidate in a particular electoral race? My column today, which you’ll find below in English and in Spanish, provides some guidance on this point.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/columns/columns2008/08-02-25-what-i-have-failed-to-do.htm
Fr. Joe,
According to what Fr. Frank said in his message it would be a sin by omission if I refused to vote based on my sentiment that there isn’t anyone worth voting for? My thoughts would have to gravitate to the “best candidate.” As far as I’m concerned, every President since Roe V. Wade has not been able to end legalized abortion in this country. What about Bush’s verbal stand against abortion and our guys getting killed in Iraq? Does that make any sense? As I’ve stated before, he has the authority to pardon a stupid turkey at Thanksgiving time, yet he couldn’t do anything for poor Terri Schindler Schiavo. Admit that it’s true. The President was given the power to prevent other fellow Americans from being murdered right? He tried and failed. I knew Terri because we attended the same school. What happened to her was inexcusable, disgraceful and shameful.
Critics would say that it was correct that she be “put out of her misery.” She didn’t look miserable to me. She had many people available and willing to care for her. It boils down to us making decisions that are intended for God alone, just like the In-Vitro fertilization issue.
Man will never out smart God.
I cannot, in good conscience, vote for a man/woman who is directly or indirectly in favor of murdering children in the place that should be the safest place for them…..their own mother’s womb. That’s evil and satanic.
Your thoughts please
No thoughts? The election will undoubtedly be a landslide.
You do make some very good points here and I understand them well. Please do not be angry with me when I say that I am actually part of the Senator Obama Campaign Volunteers.
I may not agree with absolutely everything that he stands on, but I believe that he is much more knowledgeable than the other candidates in the election. Don’t get me wrong, I have not always been for Obama as president, but I have come to understand him more.
Truthfully, I do not believe he will pay much attention to this issue when the time comes as being President. There are issues that are much more pressing to the country in a whole. Yes, abortion is an issue that everyone is very passionate about, but there are other important issues that dictate the life of all Americans. Jobs are being lost, gas prices are raised to an all time high, and a war that has gone on for too long is still continuing. He may talk about abortion, but there are pressing matters to attend to first that I believe he will take care of first. Abortion is important to him, but there are other important debates.
Katie,
I agree with you. It’s not just the abortion issue. I never thought that a gallon of milk would ever cost more than a gallon of gasoline. It’s terrible.
I’m sorry folks. I’ve lost complete faith in our government. Now, they’re giving us a little bit of spending money in May, which is subject to income tax. Instead of sending our hard earned money over seas, they should have helped out the working class all along. Look at healthcare system in this country. It’s pitiful.
My elderly in-laws, 82 and 85, reside with me because they could never afford to live alone on their Social Security.
The government is costing the American tax payer plenty. We have a government that we can’t afford anymore.
My friend came to America 12 years ago. He moved back to Europe last year with a promise that he was never going to return to the U.S. Immigrants used to be very anxious to come to America and stay. The only reason for them to come here is to get rich. They get help from the American government, then return to their native countries. Why do we allow it?
What would Jesus say?
He has already left us 10 Commandments, one of which states, Thou Shalt Not Kill! This is not a suggestion left open for discussion or arbitration. Our forefathers would turn over in their graves to think that the great country they began would end up killing themselves; and their children. Have all these ‘educated’ politicians conveniently forgotten simple biology? Life begins with one single cell! Where would they all be without that first cell? We must fight for those future leaders of our country that are being denied life–the gift that only God can give–or take away! At this point I don’t think I CAN vote for anyone for President of my country–How Pathetic!! I will pray for all the candidates that they come to understand that GOD RULES!!!
I don’t have to explain anything to anyone but God, and no duplicitous hypocritical murderer will ever get my vote. Too bad that we don’t have a Truman or an Eisenhower in the running. Real men of integrity who aren’t afraid to stand up, tell the truth, and die for it.
Today’s candidates can say anything just to get elected. They can also sell ice to the Eskimos too. Let’s be real folks. This country is in very, very, grave and serious danger no matter who gets elected, because it left God.
What’s “pathetic” is this country and the so called “Christians” that run it. As far as God ruling we know that’s a concept that they will continue to deny UNTIL another September 11th happens or maybe even worse. They’ve turned themselves into gods.
Here’s an excellent response that i’d like to share from a good Catholic friend regarding the election and sound voting:
We are told we have a moral obligation to protect our country by voting. I don’t think the Church has an official position, but we are told that we are called to vote for the lesser of two evils. For ex: if both candidates are pro-death, but one is against partial birth and only believes that abortions should be performed in the first trimester…than the “choice” no pun intended, is obvious. We are called to vote for the latter. ***** said if they were two pro-choicers he would not vote. I told him if the worse of the two were put in office, he would be accountable for all the evil that incurred, along with all the others that didn’t vote. I will vote. It’s my duty no matter what.
End
The church tells us that we are obligated to vote.
You remember Pat Paulsen??????
I thought that I was the only guy who remembered him. I didn’t like the Smothers brothers. They were annoying. Pat Paulsen is the guy who rode a motor cycle with training wheels and a gorilla perched on the back seat. You right! It’s to bad that he’s dead.
We’d be better off having a President with a motorcycle with training wheels and a gorilla for a vice President.
Fr. Joe,
The guy’s who should have been President and Vice President
enjoy
Folks,
Please excuse my previous emotional outbursts. Italians aren’t generally regarded for subdued emotions, and we know that emotions don’t always carry truth.
Anyway, after giving it a lot of serious prayer and thought, I’ve decided to vote in this election. I thank God for the grace to know and the wisdom to understand that it is a sin of omission NOT to vote. It is.
This came from a priest friend AFTER my decision:
It is a sin, indeed, not to vote. It’s our duty to vote and to see that the best candidate is in office who will further the laws of God to best of his ability. When neither candidate is good, we choose the lesser of two evils, but we never abstain from voting. It’s better to reach the good in small increments than to allow evil to take over because we sat back and did absolutely nothing by not voting. As to the gravity of not voting, I’m not sure. I’d say that at best it’s a serious venial sin, but I’m not sure that it would be a mortal sin. HOWEVER, for one to say that he will deliberately commit a venial sin is still a tremendous slap in the face to God because it is offending Him in a smaller way Who not only does no evil to us, but is incapable of doing evil to us. To offend God deliberately, knowingly, consciously even in a small way is no light matter and should be avoided at all costs. The mark of real holiness, after all, is NOT the deliberate avoidance of mortal sin since most people do that anyway. The true mark of a saint is the avoidance of deliberate VENIAL sin because real love of God seeks to refrain from hurting Him even in the slightest way.
AMEN.
Father here has buried a discussion I had with him on Senator Obama regarding his religious faith, Christian or Muslim or Secular Humanist? If you are interested, here is the link:
http://fatherjoe.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/barack-obama-christian-or-muslim-or-what/
The priest disagrees with me but I am glad that he allowed me to speak my mind.
P P
#74,
I’ve read your remarks and his responses. I ask why waste so much time and energy being so analytical? It’s better to overlook the components of the man’s name and other frivolous things. Isn’t it more important to focus more on his integrity or lack thereof.
The long and short of it is that he’s pro-abortion. If that were not true, then Fr. Joe would have never started this forum on Obama to begin with.
If I may quote Fr. Corapi: “The woman’s right to choose? The right to choose WHAT? Notice that they can’t or don’t finish the sentence?”
I think that this country is in serious trouble no matter who gets elected.
“The fruit of abortion is nuclear war”
Blessed Theresa of Calcutta
Hey Fr. Joe,
This doesn’t have anything to do with our topic,
but I wanted to let you know that I will include you to your namesake St. Joseph in our novena which begins today.
I will send you something that I wrote, so check your yahoo email
God bless
Michael
Fr. Joe,
What did you think of my story?
Fr. Joe: Thank you for writing this out so explicitly. I think it’s important that people start to really listen to Obama’s words! He can be a slippery fellow–but you pinned the truth down here!
I have a friend who is a female a doctor in her twenties living in Hawaii. She said Obama really misleads the public when he insinuates that there are ever instances where a late-term abortion could actually help a mother’s health. If a mother’s health is in danger and she is late into her pregnancy the choice is to deliver or not deliver–not “to abort or not to abort.” If a mother’s life truly is in danger, her physician will attempt to deliver the baby and medical staff do all they can to give him or her a fighting chance. Late-term abortion for the health of the mother is never necessary. It is ridiculous, and not even medically sound, to assume it is.
Of course, the fact is that the majority of abortions are performed on perfectly healthy women who simply don’t want to be pregnant.
The ‘little girl raped by her father’ story (and how absolutely disgusting is that) has been used as an excuse to kill babies since the 1960s–I’d like to know how many commentators here have actually known a person who lived through such a horrific trauma.
I doubt that many–if even one.
The church has always taught NO ABORTION, even in the cases of rape and incest.
This is consistent with the 5th commandment.
No one has the right to murder anyone.
As far as Obama goes, God help us if he gets elected.
I absolutely agree with you, Michael.
My point was that the pro-aborts use the same excuses decade after decade (and the younger generations pass on the same stories they’ve learned by the older generations) in their desperate attempts to keep abortion legal–such as the ‘raped by father’ excuse, the ‘coat-hanger’ excuse, the ‘too young to have a baby’ excuse (sex is for adults, not children. If a young girl decides to have sex, then she shouldn’t be surprised to find herself pregnant). And my comment was aimed at those commenter using these excuses, or the one excuse in particular.
I once read an article about an unmarried woman who was raped by a stranger, later becoming pregnant (which is extremely rare). She would not, however, abort the child and gave birth to him. She also noted that the baby looked exactly like the father! Rather than give up the baby for adoption, she chose to raise him. That woman was the personification of courage and love–abortion is neither.
The abortion industry is about profit and nothing else but profit–other than killing, of course. Abortion is not about the rights or independence of women. Its advocates exploit young women, poor women, and frightened women, regardless of race. As a matter of fact, the abortion industry is the most openly racist organization today. And do note that planned parenthood offices are generally located in poor neighborhoods. Does anyone think that’s coincidence?
The Catholic Church has a long history that originated by one man and His teachings (Christ). To understand the Church, one must understand the Church’s history and teachings.
Abortion, too, has a long history that originated by one woman and her teachings. To understand abortion and the planned parenthood, one must understand its history and teachings. Margaret Sanger is the founder of planned parenthood. Read her history and her ‘teachings.’ Then tell me, again, that abortion benefits the ‘freedom’ and ‘independence’ of women.
“Truthfully, I do not believe he will pay much attention to this issue when the time comes as being President.”
Katie,
I’m not quite sure which issue you’re referring to, but if you mean the abortion issue, Obama has paid a great deal of attention to it. As a matter of fact, he has vowed that his first (very first) task as President would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which would not only unleash unlimited powers to abortionists, but eliminate any and all restrictions on abortions that are now in place. The word ‘choice’ will disappear from matters relating to abortion and be replaced with ‘demand.’
Lara and Ann,
I am a cradle Catholic. I am for traditional values. I am for anything that the Pope teaches BECAUSE IT COMES DIRECTLY FROM GOD.
Obama is making promises that he can’t keep. He’s writing checks that he can’t sign.
We can’t have a universal health plan. That would make us socialists. Remember when Hillary Clinton promised universal healthcare when her husband was running for President?
It didn’t happen then and it won’t happen now.
He doesn’t represent me in any way shape or form. He’s on TV and advocating parents turning off the TV to spend time with their children. I feel like turning off the TV when I see him. What about spending time in prayer or reading the Bible or the Catechism? What can be more important than that? He’s not man enough to tell people that.
Lets tell it like it is:
He’s PRO DEATH and people are going to vote for him? Wait until they die and face judgment. They will surely answer for their erroneous actions and sentiments.
There is no greater attribute for someone wanting to be the leader of the free world than to be PRO-LIFE.
I’M NOT VOTING FOR HIM and God help us if he gets in.
Folks,
I had to listen to a bubble brain Catholic woman tell me tonight that Sarah Palin is “nuttier than a fruit cake”
The pot calls the kettle black.
OK, then go ahead and abuse your gift of free will and vote for the PRO DEATH candidate.
YOU WILL ANSWER TOO…. YOU BETCHA!
I didn’t have the chance to blast her because she’s a patient in a hospital. I didn’t want to send her to the cardiac care unit, but her remark made me VERY angry. This is also the mother of three children.
My wife’s cousin is so fearful of an Obama win that he loaded up on bottled water, frozen foods, canned goods, rice, a firearm, and all sorts of items used for disasters. This is very true and also very unnecessary. He’s been sending me anit-Obama emails every day for the last 4 months.
If he gets elected the country will take a terrible dive, but all of us here knows for a fact that the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH WILL REMAIN!
God bless
Michael
i think that anybody for abortions is wrong on all parts so in that instant i think that obama should not be president…
♥ashley young
age:15
Ashley,
You have more intelligence than most adults.
Some adults think that it’s ok to kill a baby in it’s mommy’s womb. It’s not OK and God is very very angry and sad.
If Mr. Obama becomes the next President, that will show that God is punishing America for killing innocent babies. Some people will see it as a victory and it will be no victory. It will definitely be a defeat for America and also the little babies who will be killed before they are born.
Everyone has the right to be born because everyone is valuable to God.
Stay as smart as you are. Your parents should be very proud of you.