MYERS & ANTI-CATHOLIC BIGOTRY!

July 27, 2008 by Father Joe

P Z Myers

Paul Z. Myers, a biology professor at the University of Minnesota urged young people to steal hosts and to send them to him for desecration. This week he posted a photograph on his blog of the consecrated host nailed to a Koran with a banana peel and coffee grinds thrown into the mix. He said that afterwards he threw it all into the garbage.

Myers refers to the Eucharist as “the cracker” and defines it as “this silly symbol of superstition”. In response to those good people who pleaded with him not to defile the Eucharist, he was blunt and brutal, “Your personal sense of the sacred in a piece of bread dough is absurd to me and imposes on me no sense of obligation.” Speaking about the situation he writes: “Catholicism has been actively poisoning the minds of its practitioners with the most amazing bulls%*t for years, and until recently, I had no idea that a significant number of people actually believed this nonsense, or that the hatred was still simmering there, waiting for an opportunity to rise up in misplaced defense of absurdity.” He is the one using hatred, atheistic or not, as the engine for his campaign against the Church.

The school’s chancellor, Jacqueline Johnson, said that the active link between the university webpage and his blog had been deactivated. She admitted that his views “do not reflect those of the University of Minnesota, Morris, or the University of Minnesota system.” He is in clear violation of their policy and a faculty member was dismissed in 2001 for violating it: “Section 10.21 (b) of UMN’s Tenure Code — A tenured faculty member can be terminated or suspended for ‘unprofessional conduct which severely impairs a faculty member’s fitness in a professional capacity.’”

How can Myers continue to carry out his mission as an educator? Good Catholic families and other decent people, Christian, Jewish, Moslem, or with no religion, will want nothing to do with him. Parents will take their children out of the school. Alumni will take their donations and support elsewhere. He has forfeited any respect that a student must have for his teacher. Thus, there is no answer I can imagine but termination. Myers did this to himself. He only has himself to blame.

The code of Conduct for the University of Minnesota is clear. The school faculty are REQUIRED to be respectful and “must be committed to the highest ethical standards of conduct” (II:2). That conduct is spelled out: “Ethical conduct is a fundamental expectation for every community member. In practicing and modeling ethical conduct, community members are expected to: act according to the highest ethical and professional standards of conduct [and] be personally accountable for individual actions” (III:1). We are told that teachers must BE FAIR AND RESPECTFUL TO OTHERS: “The University is committed to tolerance, diversity, and respect for differences. When dealing with others, community members are expected to: be respectful, fair, and civil . . . avoid all forms of harassment . . . [and] threats . . . [and] promote conflict resolution.” (borrowed from Jimmy Akin)

However, the chancellor added that while she believes “behaviors that discriminate against or harass individuals or groups on the basis of their religious beliefs are reprehensible,” that they had to affirm “the freedom of a faculty member to speak or write as a public citizen without institutional discipline or restraint.”

This means that as far as she is concerned he can say or do anything without concern about his position or punishment. Here we find typical anti-Catholic prejudice and propaganda, with a side-order of disrespect to our Islamic brothers and sisters.

CL President, Bill Donohue

The Catholic League noted that the university had violated it’s own policy on expressions of bias that require discipline. Bill Donohue astutely remarked, “Just as African Americans would not tolerate the burning of a cross, and Jews would not tolerate the display of swastikas, Catholics will not tolerate desecration of the Eucharist.” He has lodged a formal complaint:

Expressions of disrespectful bias, hate, harassment or hostility against an individual, group or their property because of the individual or group’s actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion…can be forms of discrimination. Expressions vary, and can be in the form of language, words, signs, symbols, threats, or actions that could potentially cause alarm, anger, fear, or resentment in others…even when presented as a joke.

The University must now take action and apply the appropriate sanction. We are contacting the president, Board of Regents and the Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action Office at the school, as well as Minnesota’s governor and both houses of the state legislature; the Catholic community in Minnesota is also being contacted. Moreover, we are also contacting Muslim groups nationwide.

Hate Crimes by University of Minnesota faculty cannot be tolerated. Contact them and let them know. Unless an unforeseen miracle happens, it seems that Professor P. Z. Myers has to go.

President Bruininks

President Robert H. Bruininks

202 Morrill Hall
100 Church Street S.E.
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN 55455

Via phone: 612-626-1616
Via fax: 612-625-3875

Via e-mail: upres@umn.edu

Chancellor Johnson

Chancellor Jacqueline Johnson

309 Behmler Hall
600 East 4th Street
Morris, MN 56267

320-589-6020

E-mail: grussing@morris.umn.edu

Posted in Anti-Catholicism, Apologetics, Bigotry, Catholic News, Christianity, Eucharist, Ministry, Politics, Priesthood, Religion, Science, Uncategorized | 85 Comments

85 Responses

on July 27, 2008 at 11:37 pm Michael

Mr. Myers,
If you’re reading this, it’s an indication that you need to stop what it is that you’re doing and to repent. You’re an educated man, but you have no idea of the severity of your actions.

All you have to do to understand is to look at history to see what happened to those who mocked God. It’s not worth the punishment nor the loss of your soul.
on July 28, 2008 at 7:02 am Dymphna(4HisChurch)

Thanks for the contact info, Father. I just sent off 2 emails.
on July 28, 2008 at 11:20 am SoMG

It’s not a hate crime. It’s an attempt to improve your intelligence. Sometimes a shock wakes people up.

The ongoing effort to pollute science classes with a theory of the supernatural is a desecration at least as meaningful to scientists and science educators as PZ’s desecration is to Catholics. Governor Jindal (R-La) is a disgrace to the Rhodes Scholarship and should be made to pay back the money Rhodes Trust spent on his education.

I know the Catholic Church does not deny evolution but She does use the most egregious abuses of science to promote bad laws and policies in accordance with Church doctrine. For example see
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/

I hope even right-to-lifers can see how offensive this abuse of epidemiology is to scientists and science educators, quite apart from the natural offensiveness of RTLism.

FATHER JOE: In regard to Myers, his words convict him of a hate crime. He hates the Church and he mocks Christians as fools. The matter of the Eucharist is quite different from that of Evolution where most Catholics would simply insist upon Intelligent Design in the background.
on July 28, 2008 at 4:24 pm Michael

SoMG

It is a hate crime.

How would you feel if Myers did to you what he did to the Eucharist.

What would you call that?

You’re misusing your ability to reason.

And here’s something else: As much as people desire it, science is incapable of explaining everything. We can’t even figure out how to travel with little or no cost when the Earth is full of all kinds of energy.

Figure that out.
on July 28, 2008 at 8:48 pm Joan

Fr Joe,

Am I correct the Miracle of Lanciano in 750, was verified by independent scientists in 1971 and 1996 who found the Flesh to be myocardial tissue and the Blood to be true Blood – and that this event was accepted as a Miracle? (A quick PubMed search reveals Linoli’s 1971 findings were reported in Quaderni Sclavo di diagnostica clinica e di laboratorio; but I don’t have the actual article.)

How does science explain that which is unexplainable, if not through faith?

FATHER JOE: Yes a miracle, but apart from bleeding hosts, every Eucharist is a greater miracle still– Jesus whole and complete, risen and alive!
on July 28, 2008 at 9:41 pm janine

I would love to be a fly on the wall when PZ is on his deathbed. How do Atheists explain intense suffering and the absolute unfairness of this world? Or if their beloved child is murdered or in intense pain? I want to see my loved ones again for all eternity…I could not bear knowing I will never see them once they leave this world.

As Fr. Corapi so brilliantly stated, there are no Atheists in fox holes….
on July 28, 2008 at 10:46 pm Michael

Janine,

What’s ironic is that this man is a professor of biology (the study of life).

The Eucharist is the LIFE of our souls. It is symbolized by the red ray that issues forth from the Merciful heart of Jesus in the Divine Mercy image.

To quote te Fr. Corapi once again:
“The greatest thing that I’ve learned in college is that I really don’t know anything.”

I think of PZ as a modern day Saul who needs to get knocked on his you know what.

Pray for him.
on July 29, 2008 at 1:43 am anne

We atheists don’t hate Catholics. We do despise your religious delusions. Especially when they lead to persecution (and often, historically, murder) of real people in defense of a cracker.

We can take your cracker and scientifically prove that it’s just a fracking cracker. It’s not a god, and symbolically it’s pretty screwed up.

As far as atheists in foxholes, trust me, there are plenty. We don’t secretly believe in your God or any other god. We don’t pray regardless of disaster, misfortune, or impending death. That would be ridiculous. Do Catholics secretly pray to Allah, just in case? No, I thought not.

That’s not to say that we have closed minds. But you would have to show us some evidence of your imaginary invisible supernatural friend before we would believe in its existence.

FATHER JOE:

First, I am troubled Anne by the label you give yourself through your email address. This too might be a sign of what happens when people distance themselves from God and the values of the Gospel. You call yourself “templewhore”. What a terrible self-designation. Your name “Anne” is beautiful. St. Ann was the mother of Mary and grandmother of Jesus. We just celebrated her feast. One of her most important titles is “Mother of the Immaculate Conception”. I will call you Anne. That best respects your dignity as a person and as a woman.

I am not aware of any mass persecution and murder of atheists because of their rejection of the Eucharist. It is possible that certain unstable persons threatened Cook and Myers, but this is because or moral and mental faults in persons, not necessarily in the Catholic faith. Indeed, when one looks at the persecution of Catholics, there is ample evidence of intolerance: first by the ancient Jewish community and later by pagan Rome and then from the sects of a fractured Christendom. In more recent times, the truly atheistic governments known as “Communist” imprisoned and tortured believers. There are cases, as in Asia, where participation at Mass or the adoration of a single host could result in the death sentence. Many Catholics and Orthodox believers suffered the Gulag for this Eucharistic faith, and yet continued to offer Mass and Holy Communion in secret from their meager rations in prison. Their guards and torturers also mocked the faith.

You might not understand how the Eucharist could possibly be what we claim; indeed, you might see it as the ultimate foolishness. But, even if you cannot appreciate any innate value to the consecrated host, a true humanist would still appreciate the intentional value that it is given by believers. If you cannot see Christ in the host, you should at least appreciate and respect how believers have given something of themselves to this sacramental sign. We give divine worship and adoration. Non-Eucharistic Christians would call this idolatry. You would call it delusion. Nevertheless, we derive comfort, courage and a sense of solidarity from it. We do not demand that you submit or even bend the knee to the Eucharist. We would not want you to be hypocritical and to feign a faith you do not possess. However, you should at least offer human respect to the value we place in the sacrament. The lack of civility demonstrated by Cook and Myers pains us– not merely because they do not believe in the real presence of Christ in the host– but because their anger and self-righteousness has replaced charity and respect toward others. They point to past injustice as if that gives us liberty to be unjust in return. Having judged Christianity and religion as foolishness, Myers acts as a type of “thought-police” presuming to tell us that we have no right to our beliefs. Consequently, he goes out of his way to denounce them, not by discussion or debate, but through symbolic desecration and fanning the flames of anger, hatred and revenge. Christians should have the freedom to be fools for Christ. Atheists retain the freedom to express their ideas in the public forum. But, both the atheist and the believer, should act with civility and with a respect for persons if not for ideas and practices. I would not interrupt an atheist’s lecture and I would hope he would not disrupt a religious service or interfere with Holy Communion.

As far as scientifically proving anything against the Eucharist, this is impossible. The Church has always acknowledged that the “appearances” or the “accidents” of bread and wine remain the same in the consecrated species. We speak of the underlying reality or substance of the bread and wine transformed (transubstantiation) into the risen Jesus: the body, blood, soul, humanity and divinity of the whole Christ. There is nothing that can be observed or measured about the change after the epiclesis and consecration. The presence is not so much a physical one as it is a sacramental “real” presence. This can only be discerned by faith. We can find rational arguments to explain it, but there are no proofs as such. We accept this teaching because Jesus says it is so in his many Eucharistic discourses.

The reference to “no atheists in foxholes” is a saying that is often realized. When we are afraid and near death, often the most hardened atheist will allow a small aspiration from his lips toward that mystery we call God. I have seen this many times over, even if it is only a slight movement in the direction of agnosticism and a final questioning in the soul (mind and heart). Is this all there is? Am I suffering and dying for nothing? What difference did any of it make?

I have always thought the Five Ways of St. Thomas are a good manner to discuss the existence of God. However, without the gift of faith, one could never come to the conclusion that there is a personal God who has inserted himself into human history. The argument of necessity is particular moving for myself as I find the notion of infinite regressions and progressions to be rather ridiculous. I view God as the ground for existence, that absolute Being who must exist and who shares his “esse” so that we might know life and consciousness. I suppose there is something of St. Anselm and St. Augustine in my view of things, too. Why does anything exist at all? And here I mean right down to the sub-atomic level and even string theory… why? If there is no Intelligent Designer, then it seems to me there should be nothing. Nothing comes from nothing. The mere fact that we can raise such questions is a type of proof that there is a mystery and that mystery is called God by some.
on July 29, 2008 at 2:11 am SoMG

Janine, you wrote: “I would love to be a fly on the wall when PZ is on his deathbed.”

Perhaps in another life you will.

You wrote: “How do Atheists explain intense suffering and the absolute unfairness of this world? Or if their beloved child is murdered or in intense pain?”

Well I’m not an athiest but I would bet it’s easier for them to explain this sort of thing than for you–they don’t have to reconcile it with the idea that God is omnipotent and benevolent, which has been a stumbling block for a lot of monotheists over the years.

FATHER JOE: The problem of Job finds its resolution in Christ. Catholicism best answers the question about suffering and death. Sin and death enter the world through the primordial sin. Christ brings redemption, but while sin and death are conquered, they are not undone. Catholics believe that they need to offer their crosses with that of Christ. God is in solidarity with his people through Christ. The Mass is a manner through which in worship we can offer ourselves as grafted to Christ in an acceptable oblation to the Father.
on July 29, 2008 at 2:33 am SoMG

Michael, you wrote: “It is a hate crime. How would you feel if Myers did to you what he did to the Eucharist. What would you call that?”

I’d call it assault and battery. How would you feel, and what would you call it, if a Catholic did to YOU what HE does to the Eucharist? Chewed you up and swallowed you, I mean?

You wrote: “You’re misusing your ability to reason. ”

One of us is.

You wrote: “And here’s something else: As much as people desire it, science is incapable of explaining everything. ”

That puts it way ahead of relgion which is incapable of explaining ANYTHING, except when it uses scientific methods. And then it’s the science, not the religion, which explains.

You wrote: “We can’t even figure out how to travel with little or no cost when the Earth is full of all kinds of energy. ”

Are you kidding? Have you thought about how much more costly it was to travel, long distances or short, one hundred years ago? And a hundred years before that? And before that? Here’s a clue: the differences have nothing to do with people changing their religious beliefs.

FATHER JOE: While Catholicism teaches the “real” presence, it is still a sacramental mode of presence and the accidents of bread and wine remain. Jesus intended for his Eucharist to be consumed as the bread of life and the cup of salvation. The Eucharist is called a “clean” sacrifice because there is no odor of flesh and no blood pouring through vats around the altar. Jesus did not intend for his sacrament to be nailed to a Koran or thrown out in the garbage.
on July 29, 2008 at 7:00 am SoMG

You Catholics want to know who’s desecrating your religion much worse than PZ?

TROSCH

A Catholic priest who celebrates murder and terror in the name of Jesus and the Catholic Church. A god$%#n CATHOLIC PRIEST! He’s been relieved of his active responsibilities but he is technically still an Officer of the Church, legally entitled to call himself Her representative and spokesman. I honestly can’t figure out why mainstream Catholics have not called for his excommunication. Please enlighten me. Doesn’t his membership pollute the Body of Christ? If you had a piece of Jesus’ feces, would you eat it?

Fr. Trosch calls Jon Salvi, who shot two women to death and shouted “That’s what you get. You should PRAY THE ROSARY!”, a hero for the unborn and a political prisoner (anyway he did until Jon committed suicide in prison, some would say wisely–he was in his mid-twenties with a sentence of life without parole).

Isn’t a pro-terrorist Catholic Priest issuing (thinly-veiled) death warrents in the Name of Jesus and the Catholic Church a graver desecration than PZ’s? Which do you think would bother Jesus more if He knew? (Oops, I mean of course, which do you think bothers Jesus more, since He is Alive and Knows? (Sarcasm)) And unlike PZ, against whom the Church can do nothing but rage and beat Her fists against the floor, Fr. David Trosch could be excommunicated at any time. All the Church has to do is decide.

If you drive a girl to get the morning-after pill, you are excommunicated. But if you call for terrorist attacks in Jesus’ name with the authority of a Priest, you’re not. Even when your call is answered in the name of the Rosary by a devout Catholic, whom you subsequently lionize.

And you all wonder why people think the Church is crazy.

One more general comment before I sign off: The perceived overlap between the RTL movement and the anti-contraceptive movement is extremely bad for the public image of the RTL movement. It causes many people who might otherwise think seriously and objectively about the rights of the unborn, and the obligations to it (if any) incurred by the woman at conception, to write you off without a hearing. If I were a RTL I would definitely advise funding some RTL but also pro-contraception organizations. Imagine how much more seriously potential converts and neutrals would take an organization like Crisis Pregnancy Centers when they claim their goal is to stop abortions, and how many more women they could lure in to watch their propaganda, if they handed out free condoms as well as free pregnancy tests.

You want to know what else is just god-awful for RTLism’s public image? The reliance on obvious medical lies (the breast cancer bugaboo, and the myth that RU-486 is dangerous). This stuff may bring in money but it excludes too many intelligent people from your audience.

FATHER JOE:

Rev. David Trosch of Mobile, Alabama is not representative of the priesthood and cannot speak for the Catholic Church. The faith has enemies from many camps: atheists, Protestant fundamentalists, heretical Modernists, sedevacantist traditionalists, and others. He may be a priest, but Trosch gave up on Roman Catholicism some time ago. One cannot espouse violence and murder as he does and remain in good standing. He is no longer an officer of the Church, having been stripped of his faculties. He has separated himself from the body of the Church. Abortion is murder, but the Church condemns the rhetoric that fuels violence and would never support the killing of abortionists. Indeed, the Church opposes the death penalty across the board, particularly since the papacy of Pope John Paul II. As a sedevacantist, he believes the seat of Peter is empty and that Pope Benedict XVI is not a true Pope.

I will not get into a debate about who is the greater devil, Trosch or Myers; both stand convicted by their deplorable actions. Trosch is no longer a Catholic because he has rejected the Pope and the authority of both his bishop and the Holy See. Myers is a self-avowed atheist. One might contend that Trosch should know better; but given the mantra for toleration on college campuses, you would think Myers would have better sense, too. Trosch has separated himself from the Church to which he claimed one must be a member to be saved. He has embraced mortal sin and damnation, is that not enough? I am not sure if he is canonically excommunicated or not, but given his actions, what difference does it make. He has been censured and faces laicization… the greatest punishment that can be given a priest.

As for the overlap between the Right to Life movement and our anti-contraception campaign, it is linked by necessity. Birth control establishes a contraceptive mentality which in turn leads to the crime of abortion. Further, various forms of contraception, certain pills and the IUD are inherently abortifacient. The medical consequences from contraception are not lies but based upon sound research. Of course, those organizations like Planned Parenthood are quick to pay off their experts and doctors to ridicule any danger signs. Contraception and abortion is big business and many have become rich from induced sterility and the murder of children.
on July 29, 2008 at 10:28 am Michael

SoMG

Your last post made no sense at all.
Read your words carefully and see how you contradict yourself.

Quit while you’re ahead or find another battle worthy of fight
on July 29, 2008 at 10:49 am Michael

SoMG,

According to your erroneous sentiments and thoughts, science is capable of explaining everything. You probably think that you put yourself on this earth too.

It’s very apparent that you are a person of no faith by your own words. You need science to tell you how everything evolved. The reason for skyrocketing fuel and energy costs is due to GREED and not science.

When a person has faith, they don’t need to know the ins and outs of everything. That’s exclusive to God alone. If we knew all that there is to know that then wouldn’t be any room for God.

I suggest that you go to see PZ Myers and ask him to do to you what he did to the Eucharist, then come back and tell us how it felt.

Catholics don’t go around bashing other religions and yet the Catholic faith, especially the Eucharist, is constantly being bombarded by other denominations and by the secular media. Why?
on July 29, 2008 at 12:08 pm Michael

I’m out of here folks. I spoke my peace and pray that God has mercy on those who mock Him in word and in action.

Ignorance is bliss?

Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is evil.
on July 29, 2008 at 12:30 pm Paula

To all the atheists trying to show us how wrong we are, here is what Fyodor Dostoyevsky said:

“If someone proved to me that Christ is outside the truth and that in reality the truth were outside of Christ, then I should prefer to remain with Christ rather than with the truth.”

I am a scientist holding a PhD in Biology. A Catholic of Eastern Rite. A convert from Atheism. And what is written above is part of my personal Creed.
on July 29, 2008 at 1:33 pm Paula

I invite all who read this thread to watch a series of 4 short videos on youtube. Here is the first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84-6ES4Zp6A&feature=related

No worries, this is not Catholic propaganda :-).
Few people, I think, are aware of what these videos describe…
on July 29, 2008 at 3:30 pm Blake

I would like to share my response to the U of MN Morris Chancellor and President as food for thought, especially for the anti-Catholic and atheist voices expressed above.

Chancellor Johnson,

I am a corporate attorney in the Twin Cities area and am writing to express my concern regarding the action of Professor Paul Myers. I imagine you are receiving many angry letters and emails regarding the blog of Professor Myers. I hope to capture your attention for a few minutes to explain why the university must call for the resignation of Professor Myers. I will not expound on the theology of the Catholic Church or lecture you on the divinity of the Eucharist. Such a sermon is not necessary to highlight the gravity of Professor Myers actions in asking students to remove the Eucharist from Mass for group desecration.

Here is the issue: In not demanding Professor Myers resignation, the University is, at an absolute minimum, turning a blind eye to vandalism and profoundly profane and offensive behavior. Please understand that there is no more offensive or degrading action against a Catholic than physically abusing the Eucharist because Catholics believe the Eucharist is the actual, physical Body of Christ. It does not matter if you or the University shares in this belief. By allowing a University Professor, a person with authority over students, to ask students to steal the Eucharist with the intention of desecrating it, opens the door for other heinous acts against religious sects. What if an anti-Semitic professor asked his/her students to remove the Torah from the Temple and burn it? Would the University stand idly by and allow this indecent act to occur without consequence? It is difficult to provide you with other hypothetical scenarios because there is no higher offense than desecrating peoples’ actual God.

At a minimum, the University should not allow such hate and intolerance to occur as it contradicts the University’s stance on diversity and tolerance in other areas (e.g. race, gender, etc.). The University would not stand for a Professor decorating his office with black dolls hanging from nooses and hate speech covering the walls. It would be an even greater offense for a professor to ask his students to do the same. Why is physically desecrating someone’s God any different? It is one thing to speak out against a belief in God or the Catholic belief in the Eucharist; freedom of speech applies without question. Argued further, academic pursuits may be furthered by open religious and moral debates. It is quite another issue to steal and physically destroy that which a large section of the population worships as their God. The University cannot stand for this. If it does, it can no longer maintain its position on tolerance and welcoming all people. The University will have isolated not only Catholics but all Judeo-Christians, Muslims, and other religious sects who hold sacred certain beliefs, practices, and artifacts. The University will be sending a message that respect, tolerance, and decency are only reserved for secularism and atheism. No religion is tolerated while pious religious is open to mockery, desecration, and physical acts of hate.

Please consider your response to Professor Myers’ actions carefully. You must do more against his heinous actions than shutting down his blog. The University must act.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
on July 29, 2008 at 6:47 pm janine

SoMg

LOL…! Ok SoMg, let’s make a deal…when I return as a mere fly in the next life, I promise I will give YOU first dibs and deposit my larvae all over what we all know you will return as… :)

Since there is no God we won’t come back as anything with a soul ..so what difference does it make?
on July 30, 2008 at 12:20 am Mike

Blake – The blog is not on a University server. It is hosted by SEED magazine.
on July 30, 2008 at 10:07 am SoMG

Athiests in the foxholes: My personal favorite is Primo Levi, who refused to pray even when he was being considered for “selection” in Auchwitz. (Being “selected” meant the administrators judged you were too weak for further work and sent you directly to the gas chamber.)

It turned out Levi was saved not by prayer but by his training as an organic chemist. Auschwitz was part of a research complex intended to develop synthetic rubber so the Nazis could make treads for their tanks even if their South American rubber colonies were blockaded. Primo Levi first labored outdoors in the Polish winter, scantily clad and poorly shod (he later wrote that in Auchwitz death begins with the feet), and he knew he would not survive a second year. But he was called in and assigned to work in a chem lab instead. This meant he was warm, not doing physical labor, and able to steal lab supplies and trade them to other prisoners for extra food.

So study your chemistry, kids. And read SURVIVAL IN AUCHWITZ.
on July 30, 2008 at 10:11 am SoMG

My email to the President and Chancellor of UMN:

“Please do not take any action against Professor Myers. Please also remind those who ask you to take action against him that we do not live in Saudi Arabia or Medieval Spain. Thanks, [signature].”
on July 30, 2008 at 10:28 am SoMG

Father Joe, I was talking about suffering in general, not just Job. But since you mentioned Job, doesn’t the Bible say pretty clearly his suffering was not because of human primordial sin but because God wanted to win a bet with another supernatural entity?

FATHER JOE: The biblical story is more complicated than that. The dialogue between God and the devil is a literary device. The last Pope wrote a good encyclical about it. I suspect what you have in mind is Archibald MacLeish’s play, J. B. It is a matter of Church doctrine that God is not the direct source of evil. However, in his passive will, he might sometimes tolerate evil because of human freedom. In any case, divine providence will ultimately prevail. Catholics are not the same as Calvinists and others in how they see the working out of divine providence– neither are we Manichaen.
on July 30, 2008 at 10:39 am SoMG

Michael, your post contains several errors. You wrote:

“According to your erroneous sentiments and thoughts, science is capable of explaining everything.”

Nope. Science can never explain, for instance, why there is something rather than nothing.

You wrote: “The reason for skyrocketing fuel and energy costs is due to GREED and not science. ”

Actually it has more to do with the fact that the Chinese and Indians are driving more. Increasing demand.

You wrote: “I suggest that you go to see PZ Myers and ask him to do to you what he did to the Eucharist, then come back and tell us how it felt. ”

I’ll gladly do this if YOU will go ask a Catholic to do to you what he does to the Eucharist (chew you up and swallow you) and then come back and tell us how that felt.

FATHER JOE: The substance of Christ is not effected by being consumed. However, once digested and the accidents of bread and wine are no more, the substance of Christ disappears. The grace of the sacrament remains. Similarly, if a host corrupts or if the precious blood sours and turns to vinegar, the substance of Christ is no more. The substance of Christ or his real presence in the sacrament only remains while the appearances of bread and wine are present. Although forbidden, if the precious blood (consecrated wine) is diluted with water and becomes more water than consecrated wine, then the underlying substance of Christ again disappears. The element of consecration in this case is wine, not water. All this refers to the fact that this is not a typical physical presence, but is a sacramental presence.
on July 30, 2008 at 11:02 am SoMG

(* Shaking head sadly *) Father Joe, you wrote: “The medical consequences from contraception are not lies but based upon sound research. Of course, those organizations like Planned Parenthood are quick to pay off their experts and doctors to ridicule any danger signs.”

You have just accused PP, a recipient of Federal grants and gatherer of epidemiological data, of scientific fraud. Do you have any idea how big a scandal that would be if it were if it were true? If you could prove it, you could shut PP down and send some of their employees to prison. Your comment is an example of EXACTLY what I’m talking about: the RTL movement’s reckless use of obvious scientific lies. Don’t you see that you are wearing your detachment from reality on your sleeve? I already pointed out how this alienates potential converts and neutrals, I now add that this is especially true among health-care professionals, whose support would most benefit the RTL movement.

You’d do better with a different approach. How about something like this: “Yes, an abortion is much safer, cheaper, less painful and more convenient than giving birth, but most parents say parenting is the most intense and gratifying love-experience in human life. Don’t you want to enjoy it sooner rather than later?”

FATHER JOE: Planned Parenthood is one of the most reprehensible organizations on the planet. They get public money and they support the campaigns of those who support partial birth infanticide and abortion on demand. They are a powerful lobby group and seem to own a number of politicians. They are not above deception and why you find this so surprising is beyond me. Their tactics and deceits are well documented by pro-life groups and fair-minded people. Not only are they dishonest about the dangers and effects of certain forms of contraception, but their strategies are also deplorable. While they supported abortion in cases of gender selection in the U.S., they opposed it in India where the majority of aborted children were female. At the Cairo Conference they convinced Egyptian officials that certain members of pro-life delegations (as from the Vatican, Guatamala, and other nations) were security risks so that they would miss important votes. They supported the government sponsored enforced abortions in China, particularly when they were given a hand in providing supplies and services. They have remained true to their roots in racism and eugenics. They are one of the chief enemies of the Catholic Church. The bishop of Lincoln Nebraska rightly excommunicated Catholic members of PP in his diocese.
on July 30, 2008 at 11:15 am SoMG

A great movie about religion: THE WICKER MAN.
It’s about a very pious Christian police officer whose duties require him to confront a neo-pagan society.

Be sure to see the original version from 1973 with Edward Woodward and Christopher Lee. (Christopher Lee acted in it for free and considers it his best movie by far.) The recent remake with Nicholas Cage is very poor.

SPOILER: The protagonist becomes a Saint.

FATHER JOE: It was a peculiar film. The occultists wanted a virgin to sacrifice and he fit the bill.
on July 30, 2008 at 1:28 pm SoMG

Father Joe, I wasn’t going to post such an obvious spoiler, but since you did, I’ll point out that they needed not just a virgin but a virgin-fool who would come to their island willingly, armed with the authority of a king.

Another reason to watch TWM: it’s the only movie I know of in which you get to hear Christopher Lee sing. He is a trained opera singer with a rich bass-baritone instrument and excellent technique. His talents were wasted in non-speaking roles like the Frankenstein Monster and the Mummy, which he got mostly because of his height. (Ironically, his height had been a severe impediment to his early stage career–many leading actors refused to appear with him because of it.)

FATHER JOE: I did not like the movie, although I think Lee makes for a scary monster.

Back to topic.

You wrote: “They [PP] have remained true to their roots in racism and eugenics.”

How? What do you think PP does today that is motivated by racism or eugenics?

Regarding roots, PP was founded in the first half of the Twentieth Century, when racism was the norm and non-racists were considered weirdos. Racism was by no means the only strange idea floating around at that time–for example, the Catholic Church had this idea that women should not be allowed to vote, and successfully prevented France from extending voting rights to women until the 1940s.

FATHER JOE: I don’t know much about such French regional issues. There were many Catholics in the U.S. that supported the woman’s right to vote.

Finally, I challenge you and your readers to produce even one recent or current Planned Parenthood publication, in any medium, which contains even one lie about any medical question. I PROMISE THAT IF YOU SUCCEED IN DOING THIS, I WILL STOP PROVIDING ABORTIONS AND NEVER DO ANOTHER ONE AS LONG AS I LIVE.

FATHER JOE: I do not believe you. I think you will always make wiggle room. But thank you for telling us THAT YOU ARE AN ABORTIONIST. Now it is clear why you are upset. Abortion is your “meat and potatoes”. I really don’t think I can tolerate baby killers on my blog. I will pray for your conversion. Goodbye!
on July 30, 2008 at 1:44 pm Michael

SoMG

I think that it’s very fair to say that your words prove, without a doubt, what you are.

That being said, I have to agree with Janine You remind me of the guy Chet from the movie Weird Science.
Remember how he ended up?

Later.
on July 30, 2008 at 2:19 pm SoMG

Also, Father Joe, you wrote: “Birth control establishes a contraceptive mentality which in turn leads to the crime of abortion. ”

I hear that argument a lot. Two interesting counterexamples:

1. Currently one of the most anti-contraceptive-mentality countries on the planet is the Philippines, and they have a higher per-capita abortion rate than the USA (according to pro-choice groups AND RTL groups such as Physicians for Life AND national and international monitoring agencies). It’s difficult to measure details since abortion is illegal (both the provider and the patient are punishable by up to six years in prison and the government sends out pregnant police women as RTL spies) but the indications are that a large fraction of pregnancies which get aborted there are conceived by women attempting to use Catholic-approved family-planning methods such as NFP.

FATHER JOE: NFP rates are as high as 98% effective. Pro-abortion groups add in those couples who deliberately use NFP to get pregnant to insure lower percentages. It is a deception. The problem in the Philippines is poverty, past exploitation by outsiders, and (while their use is immoral) the Planned parenthood giveaway of defective and leaky condoms (25-35% failure rates).

2. In the USSR during the 1980s, contraceptives were legal but because of the dysfunctional economy they were available only to high-ranking members of the Communist Party who had access to special shops. The result was a very high abortion rate indeed. It was not unusual to meet YOUNG women with more than ten abortions in their histories.

FATHER JOE: Abortion was legal in the Soviet Union going back to the 1920’s. A defective view of the human person and the fall out from Communist dogma had a part to play in their rates.
on July 30, 2008 at 3:45 pm SoMG

No, Father Joe, I am not “upset”. I was curious to see your (and your readers’) reaction to an honest expert. Which seems to be censorship. No wonder you Catholics make such slow progress!

Not that I care what you think but for the sake of truth I will tell you that abortion is not my “meat and potatoes”. It’s just one of the things I do.

FATHER JOE: The fact that you are not upset bothers me. You take money to kill children. That is the bottom line.
on July 30, 2008 at 3:51 pm SoMG

And I’ll add another one: I challenge you and your readers to identify a single society in human history that ever reduced its abortion rate by banning contraceptives or making them less available.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAH Father Joe is afraid to debate an honest expert!

FATHER JOE: Sounds to me that you are losing it. Artificial contraception was once illegal in the U.S. and in much of the West. Christian churches were unanimous in condemning it until the Anglicans broke ranks back in 1930. Except for abortifacients, who is talking about totally banning artificial contraceptives today? The way you pose the question is deceptive. Contraception should be discouraged, chastity, virginity and NFP should be promoted, and abortion should be outlawed. And those in your profession should face prison time for homicide.
on July 30, 2008 at 4:01 pm Paula

If I understood correctly, SoMG is an atheist and an abortionist.

I am really very sorry for you, SoMG. For your soul. And for us all…

I am out of here.

Father Joe I admire your courage. Keep the good work.
on July 30, 2008 at 4:29 pm Carcker Jack

SoMG:

“Pollute Science????”

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ONE WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR “SCIENCE”! In fact, the first scientists were all monks, they were all clerics!

The Big Bang theory that the universe originated in an extremely dense and hot space and expanded was developed by a Belgian priest.

People today aren’t even aware of this fact!

Here are some examples of scientists who were Catholic clergy:

1. Mendel, a monk, first established the laws of heredity, which gave the final blow to the theory of natural selection.
2. Copernicus, a priest, expounded the Copernican system.
3. Steensen, a Bishop, was the father of geology.
4. Regiomontanus, a Bishop and Papal astronomer; was the father of modern astronomy.
5. Theodoric, a Bishop, discovered anesthesia in the 13th century.
6. Kircher, a priest, made the first definite statement of the germ theory of disease.
7. Cassiodorus, a priest, invented the watch.
8. Picard, a priest, was the first to measure accurately a degree of the meridian.

The conflict between evolutionary science and creationism in the United States comes from the Protestant tradition, not the Catholic one.

American Catholicism is in a Protestant culture. We borrow a lot of our attitudes, along with a lot of our hymns, and not always the best of either.

Unfortunate, but true.

List of Catholic Scientists

Algue, a priest, invented the barocyclonometer, to detect approach of cyclones.

Ampere was founder of the science of electrodynamics, and investigator of the laws of electro-magnetism.

Becquerel, Antoine Cesar, was the founder of electro-chemistry.

Becquerel, Antoine Henri, was the discoverer of radio-activity.

Binet, mathematician and astronomer, set forth the principle, “Binet’s Theorem.”

Braille invented the Braille system for the blind.

Buffon wrote the first work on natural history.

Carrell, Nobel prize winner in medicine and physiology, is renowned for his work in surgical technique.

Caesalpinus, a Papal physician, was the first to construct a system of botany.

Cassiodorus, a priest, invented the watch.

Columbo discovered the pulmonary circulation of the blood.

Copernicus, a priest, expounded the Copernican system.

Coulomb established the fundamental laws of static electricity.

De Chauliac, a Papal physician, was the father of modern surgery and hospitals.

De Vico, a priest, discovered six comets. Descartes founded analytical geometry.

Dumas invented a method of ascertaining vapor densities.

Endlicher, botanist and historian, established a new system of classifying plants.

Eustachius, for whom the Eustachian tube was named, was one of the founders of modern anatomy.

Fabricius discovered the valvular system of the veins.

Fallopius, for whom the Fallopian tube was named, was an eminent physiologist.

Fizeau was the first to determine experimentally the velocity of light.

Foucault invented the first practical electric arc lamp; he refuted the corpuscular theory of light; he invented the gyroscope.

Fraunhofer was initiator of spectrum analysis; he established laws of diffraction.

Fresnel contributed more to the science of optics than any other man.

Galilei, a great astronomer, is the father of experimental science.

Galvani, one of the pioneers of electricity, was also an anatomist and physiologist.

Gioja, father of scientific navigation, invented the mariner’s compass.

Gramme invented the Gramme dynamo.

Guttenberg invented printing.

Herzog discovered a cure for infantile paralysis.

Holland invented the first practical sub marine.

Kircher, a priest, made the first definite statement of the germ theory of disease.

Laennec invented the stethoscope.

Lancist, a Papal physician, was the father of clinical medicine.

Latreille was pioneer in entomology.

Lavoisier is called Father of Modern Chemistry.

Leverrier discovered the planet Neptune.

Lully is said to have been the first to employ chemical symbols.

Malpighi, a Papal physician, was a botanist, and the father of comparative physiology.

Marconi’s place in radio is unsurpassed. Mariotte discovered Mariotte’s law of gases.

Mendel, a monk, first established the laws of heredity, which gave the final blow to the theory of natural selection.

Morgagni, founder of modern pathology; made important studies in aneurisms.

Muller was the greatest biologist of the 19th century, founder of modern physiology.

Pashcal demonstrated practically that a column of air has weight.

Pasteur, called the “Father of Bacteriology,” and inventor of bio-therapeutics, was the leading scientist of the 19th century.

Picard, a priest, was the first to measure accurately a degree of the meridian.

Regiomontanus, a Bishop and Papal astronomer; was the father of modern astronomy.

Scheiner, a priest, invented the pantograph, and made a telescope that permitted the first systematic investigation of sun spots.

Secchi invented the meteorograph. Steensen, a Bishop, was the father of geology.

Theodoric, a Bishop, discovered anesthesia in the 13th century.

Torricelli invented the barometer.

Vesalius was the founder of modern anatomical science.

Volta invented the first; complete galvanic battery; the “volt” is named after him.

Other scientists: Agricola, Albertus Magnus, Bacon, Bartholomeus, Bayma, Beccaria, Behalm, Bernard, Biondo, Biot, Bolzano, Borrus, Boscovitch, Bosio, Bourgeois, Branly, Caldani, Cambou, Camel, Cardan, Carnoy, Cassini, Cauchy, Cavaliere, Caxton, Champollion, Chevreul, Clavius, De Rossi, Divisch, Dulong, Dwight, Eckhel, Epee, Fabre, Fabri, Faye, Ferrari, Gassendi, Gay-Lussac, Gordon, Grimaldi, Hauy, Heis, Helmont, Hengler, Heude, Hilgard, Jussieu, Kelly, Lamarck, Laplace, Linacre, Malus, Mersenne, Monge, Muller, Murphy, Murray, Nelston, Nieuwland, Nobili, Nollet, Ortelius, Ozaman, Pelouze, Piazzi, Pitra, Plumier, Pouget, Provancher, Regnault, Riccioli, Sahagun, Santorini, Schwann, Schwarz, Secchi, Semmelweis, Spallanzani, Takamine, Tieffentaller, Toscanelli, Tulasne, Valentine, Vernier, Vieta, Da Vinci, Waldseemuller, Wincklemann, Windle, and a host of others, too many to mention.

Catholics, don’t forget Science was borne out of the Catholic Church!

Spread the Word or else the rampant Revisionism (such as the vile revisionism about Pius XII) of the secular world will have painted Catholicism as the malicious villian that almost killed Science & Western Civilization when, in fact, it was the very thing that built it!

PROUD TO BE PAPIST,
Cracker Jack
on July 30, 2008 at 4:52 pm Tattletale

Pastor Joseph,

I will send you by email the particulars about SoMG from our ENEMIES OF LIFE list. Our records are particularly good from New York and now Virginia. We do not generally publish the listing but it is made available to proven pro-life leaders. A heads-up is sometimes useful regarding those anonymous but cowardly voices which seek to impede the right to life. Our listing provides name, phone numbers, address, place of employment, job position, and a bio stressing their anti-life activism and employment. You will find it very interesting.

FATHER JOE: Thanks, but no thanks… I am not interested.
on July 30, 2008 at 4:54 pm Jon

“Pollute Science????”

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS THE ONE WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR “SCIENCE”!

In fact, the first scientists were all monks, they were all clerics!

The Big Bang theory that the universe originated in an extremely dense and hot space and expanded was developed by a Belgian priest.

People today aren’t even aware of this fact!

Here are some examples of scientists who were Catholic clergy:

1. Mendel, a monk, first established the laws of heredity, which gave the final blow to the theory of natural selection.
2. Copernicus, a priest, expounded the Copernican system.
3. Steensen, a Bishop, was the father of geology.
4. Regiomontanus, a Bishop and Papal astronomer; was the father of modern astronomy.
5. Theodoric, a Bishop, discovered anesthesia in the 13th century.
6. Kircher, a priest, made the first definite statement of the germ theory of disease.
7. Cassiodorus, a priest, invented the watch.
8. Picard, a priest, was the first to measure accurately a degree of the meridian.

The conflict between evolutionary science and creationism in the United States comes from the Protestant tradition, not the Catholic one.

American Catholicism is in a Protestant culture. We borrow a lot of our attitudes, along with a lot of our hymns, and not always the best of either.
on July 30, 2008 at 4:59 pm Jon

“No wonder you Catholics make such slow progress!”

Excuse me???

Do we continue to speak out of such incredible ignorance here?

Kindly refer to the following list of Catholics who were responsible for the type of “slow progress” that brought us to the modern world of advanced techonological progress!

LIST OF CATHOLIC SCIENTISTS

Algue, a priest, invented the barocyclonometer, to detect approach of cyclones.

Ampere was founder of the science of electrodynamics, and investigator of the laws of electro-magnetism.

Becquerel, Antoine Cesar, was the founder of electro-chemistry.

Becquerel, Antoine Henri, was the discoverer of radio-activity.

Binet, mathematician and astronomer, set forth the principle, “Binet’s Theorem.”

Braille invented the Braille system for the blind.

Buffon wrote the first work on natural history.

Carrell, Nobel prize winner in medicine and physiology, is renowned for his work in surgical technique.

Caesalpinus, a Papal physician, was the first to construct a system of botany.

Cassiodorus, a priest, invented the watch.

Columbo discovered the pulmonary circulation of the blood.

Copernicus, a priest, expounded the Copernican system.

Coulomb established the fundamental laws of static electricity.

De Chauliac, a Papal physician, was the father of modern surgery and hospitals.

De Vico, a priest, discovered six comets. Descartes founded analytical geometry.

Dumas invented a method of ascertaining vapor densities.

Endlicher, botanist and historian, established a new system of classifying plants.

Eustachius, for whom the Eustachian tube was named, was one of the founders of modern anatomy.

Fabricius discovered the valvular system of the veins.

Fallopius, for whom the Fallopian tube was named, was an eminent physiologist.

Fizeau was the first to determine experimentally the velocity of light.

Foucault invented the first practical electric arc lamp; he refuted the corpuscular theory of light; he invented the gyroscope.

Fraunhofer was initiator of spectrum analysis; he established laws of diffraction.

Fresnel contributed more to the science of optics than any other man.

Galilei, a great astronomer, is the father of experimental science.

Galvani, one of the pioneers of electricity, was also an anatomist and physiologist.

Gioja, father of scientific navigation, invented the mariner’s compass.

Gramme invented the Gramme dynamo.

Guttenberg invented printing.

Herzog discovered a cure for infantile paralysis.

Holland invented the first practical sub marine.

Kircher, a priest, made the first definite statement of the germ theory of disease.

Laennec invented the stethoscope.

Lancist, a Papal physician, was the father of clinical medicine.

Latreille was pioneer in entomology.

Lavoisier is called Father of Modern Chemistry.

Leverrier discovered the planet Neptune.

Lully is said to have been the first to employ chemical symbols.

Malpighi, a Papal physician, was a botanist, and the father of comparative physiology.

Marconi’s place in radio is unsurpassed. Mariotte discovered Mariotte’s law of gases.

Mendel, a monk, first established the laws of heredity, which gave the final blow to the theory of natural selection.

Morgagni, founder of modern pathology; made important studies in aneurisms.

Muller was the greatest biologist of the 19th century, founder of modern physiology.

Pashcal demonstrated practically that a column of air has weight.

Pasteur, called the “Father of Bacteriology,” and inventor of bio-therapeutics, was the leading scientist of the 19th century.

Picard, a priest, was the first to measure accurately a degree of the meridian.

Regiomontanus, a Bishop and Papal astronomer; was the father of modern astronomy.

Scheiner, a priest, invented the pantograph, and made a telescope that permitted the first systematic investigation of sun spots.

Secchi invented the meteorograph. Steensen, a Bishop, was the father of geology.

Theodoric, a Bishop, discovered anesthesia in the 13th century.

Torricelli invented the barometer.

Vesalius was the founder of modern anatomical science.

Volta invented the first; complete galvanic battery; the “volt” is named after him.

Other scientists: Agricola, Albertus Magnus, Bacon, Bartholomeus, Bayma, Beccaria, Behalm, Bernard, Biondo, Biot, Bolzano, Borrus, Boscovitch, Bosio, Bourgeois, Branly, Caldani, Cambou, Camel, Cardan, Carnoy, Cassini, Cauchy, Cavaliere, Caxton, Champollion, Chevreul, Clavius, De Rossi, Divisch, Dulong, Dwight, Eckhel, Epee, Fabre, Fabri, Faye, Ferrari, Gassendi, Gay-Lussac, Gordon, Grimaldi, Hauy, Heis, Helmont, Hengler, Heude, Hilgard, Jussieu, Kelly, Lamarck, Laplace, Linacre, Malus, Mersenne, Monge, Muller, Murphy, Murray, Nelston, Nieuwland, Nobili, Nollet, Ortelius, Ozaman, Pelouze, Piazzi, Pitra, Plumier, Pouget, Provancher, Regnault, Riccioli, Sahagun, Santorini, Schwann, Schwarz, Secchi, Semmelweis, Spallanzani, Takamine, Tieffentaller, Toscanelli, Tulasne, Valentine, Vernier, Vieta, Da Vinci, Waldseemuller, Wincklemann, Windle, and a host of others, too many to mention.
on July 30, 2008 at 5:16 pm SoMG

I’m not talking about ancient history.
on July 30, 2008 at 6:39 pm Michael

SoMG

Are you any relation to Sam Dracula (aka Grandpa Munster)?

I don’t understand why Fr. Joe even bothers responding to you. You’re not as smart as you think you are, so you might as well hang it up and leave.

I know of a professor who’s going to have a lot more time on his hands very soon and will be more than willing to listen to your erroneous opinions and theories.

BYE BYE
on July 30, 2008 at 8:57 pm SoMG

Hey, am I censored here or not? I know consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds (as the fellow said) but to quote HAL9000, I really think I am entitled to an answer to that question.

Jon, I can’t believe you actually listed Gallileo Gallilei as an example of how good for science the Catholic Church was. Are you even aware of the irony? I bet you copied the list off another web site without reading it. Shame on you if you did.

Yes, both Catholicism and Islam have been instrumental in the evolution of modern science. I don’t deny that. How are the mighty fallen. It’s a tragedy, actually two tragedies.

Michael, I never saw WEIRD SCIENCE. It’s difficult for me to say who my favorite weird scientist on video is–there are are so many of them that I love–but the short list would include Dr. Jekyll/Mr Hyde (as portrayed by Fredric March), Griffin in THE INVISIBLE MAN (Claude Rains), Geoffrey Radcliffe in THE INVISIBLE MAN RETURNS (Vincent Price, before his campy persona became famous), Dr. Strangelove, Dr. Michaels in FANTASTIC VOYAGE (played by Donald Pleasance BUT I’m not objective on this because I saw the flick when I was a little kid), Herbert West in RE-ANIMATOR, and Dr. Logan in George Romero’s DAY OF THE DEAD. Am I allowed to include Mime from DAS RHEINGOLD and SIEGFRIED? He’s an expert metalworker and he brews neuro-active drugs and creates an extremely powerful magical item and knows a lot about the structure of the World. Master-smiths and magicians were the closest things to modern scientists in Wagner’s fairy-tale worlds. I guess I’ll have to leave him off this particular list but he’d definitely be on any list of Characters Who Had the Right Idea about Technology. His plan was sound; it’s not at all his fault it turned out so badly for him. If you’re only going to watch one of them, make it SIEGFRIED. Mime is only a bit part in DAS RHEINGOLD, and SIEGFRIED is the easiest part of THE RING to appreciate on its own. Get the videotaped performances from the Met, conducted by James Levine. Mime is played by a true genius singing-actor (Heinz Zednik). Unfortunately, Siegfried is not; in fact the guy who plays him (whose name believe it or not is Siegfried Jerusalem) sucks ass in both categories. No one else today is much better at that role, though. You have to go back to the fifties and hear Wolfgang Windgassen to appreciate Siegfried’s personality. The other singers are excellent and the guy who plays the dragon from offstage was generally recognized as the biggest bass voice in captivity.

Tattletale, I am honored to be on your Enemies of Life list (although I do not consider myself an enemy of unborn humans generally, just the ones which are inside wombs where they are not welcome. As Sherlock Holmes said of another class of persons, they are my natural prey. (I guess that’s not really true in my case because I don’t live primarily off abortions but it was fun to write.))

Paula, I am not an athiest.

Father Joe, I agree with you that abortion is homicide. But it is JUSTIFIABLE homicide.

Meanwhile I note that no one has addressed either of my two Planned Parenthood related challenges: to identify anything PP does today that is motivated by racism or eugenics, and to identify a single medical lie in any current or recent publication by PP. I bet no one will. Because you can’t, and you know it. Father Joe, you are not doing the RTL movement any favors by accusing PP of “eugenics” and “racism” without justification. Misusing loaded words like that is another way RTLs cause reasonable people to dismiss them without a hearing. Remember the Boy Who Cried Wolf? Another word RTLs hurt their cause by misusing is “genocide”. Also RTL jargon words and phrases like “abortion mill”, “pro-abortion politician”, “pro-abort” and “babykiller” should not be used except with other committed RTLs. To everyone else these words broadcast the message that the person saying them is not serious.

Just friendly advice. I post it because I’m pretty sure you RTLs will not take it. These practices, which alienate potential converts and neutrals, also increase RTL fundraising, which is really what it’s all about. The RTL movement will never outgrow them. The only evidence I see to the contrary is the still-pretty-recent emergence of pro-gay RTL organizations. Strategically that’s a step in the right direction.

FATHER JOE: Murdering babies is never justifiable homicide! And by the way, I did not appreciate your peculiar temper tantrum, endless spam of this site, and invoking atheists and fans of Dr. Myers to invade this site by placing a link on his blog and urging them to assault me.
on July 30, 2008 at 8:58 pm another atheist anne

“The perceived overlap between the RTL movement and the anti-contraceptive movement is extremely bad for the public image of the RTL movement.”

I cannot agree enough. Speaking as a pro-life atheist and a pharmacy student who clearly knows much, much more about contraception than you do, Joe.

Birth control prevents abortion. This is a proven fact, as well as an intuitive one: if a woman wants to have sex (or is raped) but does not want to be pregnant, she can either use birth control, harming no one, or have an abortion, killing her fetus. If she uses birth control properly, she’ll probably never get pregnant, and you can’t have an abortion if you’re not pregnant. Clearly telling people to abstain from sex doesn’t work. People are much more willing to use birth control than to abstain from sex. Call it the devil’s influence, believe that these people are going to hell, but it’s a fact of life. They’re either going to use birth control or have abortions, and to which action would you rather contribute?

FATHER JOE:

And I know a number of Catholic medical doctors who would seriously disagree with you. Goodness, the juvenile attacks this site has taken recently are enough to make a person stop blogging. Would people expect a site operated by a Catholic priest to promote sacrilege against sacraments or the murder of children? Note the deliberate absence of my title, another disgruntled atheist with misaligned humanistic values.

Birth control does not prevent abortion. Indeed, it encourages abortion as a backup. It creates a contraceptive mentality that views the child as disposable. Notice the logical progression in this nation with the advancement of the birth control pill in 1960 and then abortion in the 1970’s. This did not happen by accident. There is also the matter of abortifacient forms of so-called birth control. But let us be candid, you support abortion as well and will make any argument to insure it remains readily available.

Sorry, the pill can fail as can a condom. Birth control also breeds selfishness and a lack of self-control. People cut corners and behavior is modified in the direction of laxity. They take chances because they want sex and someone forgot the rubber or pill. Presto-chango, pregnant!

Married couples have a duty to participate with God in their procreation of a family. Single people should remain virginal and NFP requires periodic abstinence. Such lifestyles are possible, but we are getting little help from a culture of death and a hedonistic society. I would have people act virtuously. The conjugal act was made for both fidelity and procreation; it was not fashioned as an impersonal act of recreation without consequences. Even if there is no conception, fornication, adultery and sodomy harm the persons who engage in such forbidden activities. Human persons are damaged when such great powers are exploited or used inappropriately.
on July 30, 2008 at 9:44 pm Kenny

I am not Catholic, but I am a believer in Christ. Myers does have the freedom to do what he wants.

However, sometimes there is a price to pay for that freedom. In this case people here are calling for his job and I don’t blame them.

How can a person teach other people and then try to force his views by using the very science he teaches as a perversion?

Tell him if he wants his freedom to do what he wants, there is a price to pay for that freedom.

FATHER JOE: An atheist has a right as any other citizen to express what he thinks. The problem here is a lack of reciprocal respect for Christians and their worship. Thanks for posting.
on July 30, 2008 at 10:45 pm SoMG

I hope this repeated use of the phrase “another athiest” isn’t intended to suggest that I am an athiest. I’m not.
on July 30, 2008 at 11:22 pm Doctor M

I hope you are not censoring anyone, especially SOMG. She is making real sense, and who would better know than a woman what is right about contraception and abortion?

I have been banned from a number of RTL and Catholic sites, just because I speak a truth you all do not want to hear. The irony is that Catholics are the ultimate Pharisees. You condemn about everything sexual people want to do and yet your priests molest children. You are all two-faced hypocrites! How about that priest in the news recently who not only paid for a girl’s abortion but drove her to the clinic. When you guys are in trouble I guess the rules no longer apply!

I doubt you will even post me, such is often the response of peanut-brains. Agree or else! You are all about name-calling, particularly this Michael. Call me a godless atheist or call me a baby killer or call me a sex fiend and you think you have won the debate. SOMG makes a basic challenge and like roaches you all go running for the darkness in the cracks because you cannot stand the light. She is right and that makes you afraid and sick.

Galileo was persecuted by his own church. He was placed under house arrest, and all because he suggested that the sun was the center of our planetary system. It was the truth, but it did not match your biblical superstitions! How many of those other so-called Catholic scientists suffered at the Church’s hands? Copernicus had his notebooks destroyed as did Gregor Mendel. Yes they were monks, but they were silenced. Their work had to be reproduced by others in the future, others who were not under the shackles of the Holy Office and Inquisition.

I noted that a couple of you had the same listing. Did you steal the names from somebody’s website. It must make you people feel smart or important to parrot the work of others without giving anyone but yourselves the credit!

History has a number of great minds from both the Islamic and Catholic and Protestant camps. And yet, the ancient Greeks already knew the world was round and that the sun was at its center. Heraclitus even correctly estimated the size of the world. Too bad that most of the work and discoveries of the ancient Greeks went up in flames with the torching of the great library in Alexandria. Literature, philosophy, science, history and so much more, set aflame by fanatical Christians in a Church that saw everything pagan as evil and corrupted.

Michael, did you like the show WEIRD SCIENCE? Me too, especially the computerized gal who wore skimpy clothes and made every juvenile and dirty old man lust after her. Did you lust after her? Sure you did, that is unless you liked the two boys in the show better.

And who the hell is this Tattletale? Sounds like a dangerous creep to me! Do you know who I am? I doubt it, although my field is biology and I have pageant for teasing the believers of fairytales!

I am an atheist and quite proud to be counted among the sane percentage of humanity. There is no god or goddess or great force. People are nice and some female people I would rate as exceptionally nice, but in the final analysis, we are all just meat. My physicist friends would say okay to that but add that we are meat with mostly empty spaces. Man determines his own destiny and he can determine what is right and wrong. We need no longer be slaves to evolutionary biology or our fertility. As for abortion, a clump of cells is unimportant to me and killing a fetus means no more to me than putting down a laboratory rat. Let us put away sentimentality about such things. Yes, babies are cute, but so are puppies and I have done some pretty terrible things to them, too. It does not matter. There is no soul and no angry god who is going to judge any of us. When we die, the lights go out. That is all. While I am here I hope to make a difference, avoid pain aand have some fun.

SOMG made great challenges and there has been no response because no challenge is possible:

1. Every organization has nuts, although the Catholic Church seems to have more than its share. There is nothing about Planned Parenthood today that smacks of racism or exploitation.

2. The only liars about contraception and abortion are in the RTL community. Our medical advances, drugs and other interventions are all beneficial to women. No one gets cancer from the pill. Planned Parenthood has been wronged here and the priest and his mob should both apologize and make restitution with hefty donations to PP!

FATHER JOE: Your extremism and insanity speaks for itself.
on July 30, 2008 at 11:42 pm Michael

Doctor M

If you are a real doctor, you’re probably a quack who likes guys too.

Why do people like you bother to leave such idiotic remarks on a Catholic blog? Is it because we have something that you know you can never have and you’re jealous?

Your a wuss for not using your real name and your extremism and insanity definitely speaks for itself. You can go back to the sand box now and sit next to your buddy Chet.
on July 31, 2008 at 1:10 am Steven Carr

1 Kings 18:27

When it was noon, Elijah taunted them: “Call louder, for he is a god and may be meditating, or may have retired, or may be on a journey. Perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”

At last , some hate speech and mockery against other religions other than Catholicism.

Nothing wrong with mockery of religions. The Bible teaches us that it is right to mock religions, if we believe they are false.

Hopefully, we can get some emails started to get this ‘Bible’ withdrawn from places where impressionable young minds can learn that it is right to mock religious people.

FATHER JOE: The prophet Elijah is seen as the underdog and his teasing is his way of cutting them down to size. Their sacrifice is untouched but the prophet’s is consumed by fire despite being drenched in water. I would be the last person to insist upon Old Testament justice. The false priests are not only mocked but afterwards they are all slain and the prophet runs for his life when the Queen comes after him. Baal was a notorious false god, judged later as demonic by Christians, and quite bloodthirsty. This was hardly a modern dialogue between religions or between people with and without faith. It was a contest and the dancing and utterances and yes, even the mockery was part of the event. While it might seem somewhat humorous, we must remember that it was a duel to the death. Hopefully we do not take Internet discussions or debates to such extremes. Despite all we can learn from it, and the victory of the true God, it was a different time and place. Ecumenism and outreach today should be civil and peaceful. The model we need to follow is that of Christ and later of that of the converted St. Paul. Our gravity should be upon the persuasion of words and witness and love, not that of derision and violence. Having said this, I am not perfect in regard to certain levels of mockery, but unlike the robbers of the Eucharist, I would never profane that which others regard as sacred.
on July 31, 2008 at 1:20 am SoMG

And sorry for posting a link to your site–don’t most bloggers prefer more hits rather than fewer?–but I thought you were censoring me.
on July 31, 2008 at 7:53 am Father Joe

SoMG…

Is there something wrong with you? Not only do you claim to be an abortionist, which is the most reprehensible occupation on the planet, but then you agree that abortion is murder but assert that it has to be done anyway. Where is your moral center? You get mad at me because you write more posts than I can possibly moderate in a timely manner. It really represents a kind of spamming. The topic of this thread is sacrilege against the Eucharist and yet you are offering strawmen challenges about contraception and abortion. You purposely go to a site where I have never posted trying to incite an angry response so that they would come back to this blog and fight your battles for you. Do you know how many vulgar postings followed you back here? In one breath you seem apologetic and then in the next you make a slur against the Catholic priesthood (deleted I should add) that more than insinuates that they are all pedophiles. Nevertheless, you still see yourself as the poor victim. I suspect you get banned from sites, not because of the logic and facts from your reasoning, but because you are a nasty and impolite person. I am a straight-talker myself, but I know moderation and do not try in any fashion to hijack someone else’s blog or webpage. I will pray for you.
on July 31, 2008 at 8:39 am Michael

Fr. Joe,

I think that you’re a very intelligent person. I do have an ernormous amount of respect for you as a priest and as a teacher of church doctrine.

I realize that this is your blog and I don’t mean to tell you how to run it. I’ve been thinking this over and would like to ask why you permit people like SoMG and Doctor M to share their erroneous and ridiculous ideas and thoughts here? It makes people very angry.

It’s very obvious to me and to the other folks here that these people are in serious need of conversion. Your responses to them have been more than charitable, to say the least, and you have been more than patient.

Reading all of theses posts makes me think of Jesus and His teaching on the Eucharist, when the disciples walked away from Him never to return. It shows how much He respected their gift of free will even though they were all very wrong.

I am not being judgmental. I’ve read every entry that they wrote and it’s very obvious, by their own words, that they have shown their true colors. I am sickened to know that these kinds of people exist in our world. They think that because they attended college or grad school that they know it all. If a person isn’t a Catholic, that means that they are devoid of graces contained only within the Catholic church I.e. the Eucharist. Why can’t these people respect that? Catholics don’t make it a practice to bash others for not being Catholic.
We do, however, have every obligation and right to stand up for life always and everywhere.

All of us are going to face the Lord sooner or later. He’s going to judge us on three basic things: The light of truth that we have within us (Jesus), the opportunities that He gave to us, and what our choices were.

The one thing that the Lord detests above all else is the sin of pride. How anyone can challenge the mind of God is beyond me.

God is infinite and omniscient.
on July 31, 2008 at 2:42 pm SoMG

Father Joe, you wrote: “you agree that abortion is murder but assert that it has to be done anyway. ”

Abortion (at the pregnant women’s request) is not murder. It is justifiable homicide. I explained this in some detail but instead of refuting my argument you deleted my post.

You won’t win hearts and minds to your cause that way.

FATHER JOE: I deleted nothing. Maybe it went out with the spam? Killing innocent children is murder. Any distinction for some lesser charge of homicide is playing semantics.
on July 31, 2008 at 3:13 pm Michael

SoMG

Why didn’t your mother abort you?
She could have done it very easily and chose not to.

Thank God that there was someone in your family that valued life, otherwise you wouldn’t be here making an ass of yourself.
on July 31, 2008 at 4:07 pm SoMG

Michael, my mother did not abort me because I was a wanted, planned pregnancy.

FATHER JOE: By the same sad reasoning, if your mother changed her mind today, we would be allowed to perform a retro-active termination upon you. Crazy!

Editorial: I deleted the material that you alraedy posted.
on July 31, 2008 at 6:40 pm Michael

SoMG,

You’d never know it by what you’ve written.

What if your mother hired Kavorkian to put you out of your misery now? Would you let him inject a lethal amount of carbolic acid or arsenic into your arm? Would you agree with that? I didn’t think so either. Incidentally, If Kavorkian did chase after you, he would have to get passed a lot of people who really care for you. That should tell you something.

Thank God that you had a mother who had the sense to value life from the time she conceived you until now, and even after you’re long gone and buried/cremated.

What about the millions of poor children who were planned by God and were murdered before they ever saw the light of day? You agree with that too I suppose.

Contrary to your erroneous, idiotic, and delusional opinions, people are not the authors and finishers of life.

Women don’t have the right to choose to kill their own children because God commands us not to kill. (The fifth commandment)

Do me a favor and remember this when the Lord comes again with legions of angels to put a stop to this evil mess once and for all.

When your convulsing and shaking violently at the sight of Divine Justice, remember that a stupid and uneducated guy warned you because I care. Just as God created the Earth and put Adam here, He can take all of us out of it too.

It’s coming soon and by then it will be too late to change. It’s not worth going to hell for. Three days and three nights of darkness over the entire Earth, then comes judgment.

It will make September 11 look like a picnic.
on July 31, 2008 at 8:11 pm SoMG

Father Joe, you wrote: “By the same sad reasoning, if your mother changed her mind today, we would be allowed to perform a retro-active termination upon you.”

No, because I am no longer inside her body or using its life-support functions or engaging in bloodstream-to-bloodstream exchange with her or getting ready to subject her to medical/surgical trauma.

FATHER JOE: Once you strip away the right to life of a person, the mere matter of temporality or changing circumstances is hardly sufficient to restore it. No, the life ethic must be consistent: from the womb to the tomb. Otherwise, no one is safe.
on July 31, 2008 at 11:52 pm SoMG

(* Rolls eyes *) Michael, Dr. Kevorkian does not chase people. People go to him.

And does he really use arsenic? My understanding was he used carbon monoxide. I’m pretty sure arsenic is a poor way to kill although Dr. Swango used it successfully a lot so maybe I’m wrong. I guess if you use enough of it it might be reliable. I never understood why Swango used it, it’s one of the most easily detectable poisons. And in most of his murders he was able to inject the poison IV so why not use a concentrated solution of potassium chloride? Maybe he wanted the delay but I don’t think its very long.

And I agree with you, Michael, Judgement Day is a very scary idea. If I believed in the Rapture I’d be very nervous, like a Christian Scientist with appendicitis.
on August 1, 2008 at 12:31 am SoMG

Thought for the day: If as William F. Buckley said “Bach’s music is proof of the existance of God”, then doesn’t Mozart’s DIE ZAUBERFLOTE prove that Freemasonry is the correct belief system?
on August 1, 2008 at 2:51 pm Michael

SoMG

You amaze me. (EYES ROLLED TOO)

How can anyone be so ignorant is beyond me.

It sounds like you want Kevorkian to chase after you with and arsenic milk shake, carbolic acid, or carbon monoxide. If you feel that way, maybe you should give him a call since he’s at death’s door too.

Regarding the rapature, YOU’LL BELIEVE IT WHEN YOU SEE IT!

I GUARANTEE YOU THAT IT’S COMING.

On another note, are you layed off or unemployed or something? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Are you one of those people on welfare? What’s your story?

You could be doing a lot of good for society instead of wasting your brilliant mind here.
(Hand over mouth chocking back laughter)
on August 1, 2008 at 6:42 pm Father Joe

On July 25, the University of Minnesota (UMN) at Morris issued a statement by its chancellor, Jacqueline Johnson, which began with the following paragraph: “I believe that behaviors that discriminate against or harass individuals or groups on the basis of their religious beliefs are reprehensible. The University of Minnesota Board of Regents Policy: [sic] Code of Conduct prohibits such behavior in the workplace—of course this includes the classroom—and I expect those who work and study here to comply with that policy.” She then proceeded to say that Professor Paul Z. Myers, who intentionally (and with malice) desecrated the Eucharist, was expressing his own views and not those of UMN.

Catholic League president Bill Donohue issued a news release the same day, saying, “This is classic: Johnson admits Myers has violated the UMN’s Code of Conduct and then proceeds to tell us why he is being allowed to do so with impunity—it’s a matter of academic freedom.”

Johnson faxed a letter to Donohue today saying she needed to address his “misunderstanding” of her statement. She makes it plain that because Myers posted his comments on his personal blog, he did not violate UMN’s Code of Conduct.

Donohue sent Johnson the following letter today:

“I am sorry for my generosity: I took it that the reason you began your statement of July 25 with a citation of UMN’s Code of Conduct as it applies to religious intolerance was your way of acknowledging Myers’ delinquency. I now stand corrected: Your comment was simply a ploy—a cute way of acknowledging that something was wrong, but certainly not anything that would demand your attention. And just so you don’t misunderstand me: You could have issued a statement saying that while UMN has no authority over what Myers says in his blog, it is morally indefensible for anyone to intentionally desecrate the Eucharist. But, no, you couldn’t even say that. Instead, you hide behind legalisms. We will let the Catholic community know of your decision.”

Contact Chancellor Johnson at jrjohnso@morris.umn.edu
on August 1, 2008 at 7:55 pm Michael

You can bet that God isn’t going to just let this slide.

This is grave matter and very serious.
on August 5, 2008 at 7:08 am Judith M.

So “unwantedness” is grounds for justifiable homicide? Who would have thought? Seems to me that the person who doesn’t “want” another person has the problem, and I fail to see why the object of their inability to love should pay the price for that problem.
on August 5, 2008 at 8:57 pm Durck

SoMG, man, you again? Now what makes you think anyone here is any more interested in your crazy-making than they were at any of the other Catholic blogs?

Game over, buddy. Move on.
on August 5, 2008 at 9:21 pm layla

SoMG–why shouldn’t you be censored? Have you been reading what you’ve been writing?

Who here is provoking you? No one.
on August 6, 2008 at 8:22 am cg

Please note, readers and posters, the differences in tone between the arguments from Christians, and those coming from Myers’ supporters. So palpable is the professor’s own hate that it spews from those who, evidently, spend a good deal of time on his site. He, meanwhile barely lifts a finger, except of course, to breed more hate.

If anyone thinks the professor is, essentially, harmless, they ought to think again.
on August 6, 2008 at 10:13 am opus

Father Joe,

The Myers gang who posts here have posted on many of the other Catholic sites using, basically, the same but reworded rhetoric. Under the same hate, of course.

They’re not genuinely interested in ‘discussing.’ Their main interest is spreading the sludge, so to speak, because they have no valid defense for the professor or his actions. And so they attack.

Just letting you know that the other blogs are on to them, too.
on August 6, 2008 at 11:23 am magi

“And does he really use arsenic? My understanding was he used carbon monoxide…I never understood why Swango used it…And in most of his murders he was able to inject the poison IV…”

Arsenic is a ‘poor’ way to kill? As opposed to carbon monoxide which is far more agreeable? You said it, SoMG, with ‘most of his murders…’ Because that is what Swango, and Kevorkian (a pathologist, not a medical doctor) are–murderers.

You and your band aren’t exactly promoting credibility among the athiest sect. If this is your idea of PR, most people whose neurons still fire, will run, not walk, when they see the likes of you coming. And I’m beginning to understand why they should.

Tell me (don’t, actually), these are the discussion topics to be sought on the professor’s site? This is the kind of ’science’ to be found there?

Not only do you degrade science, but you’re degrading intelligence–your own, especially. You’re only insulting ours.

(Sorry, Durck, but each post from this guy reaches farther into bizarro world. I half think he’s toying with people, or is that just wishful thinking?)
on August 6, 2008 at 4:27 pm Michael

magi

Don’t waste your time.
on August 7, 2008 at 7:38 am magi

I know, Michael. Forgive my momentary lapse of using sound judgment. These aren’t scientists in the making; they’re tomorrow’s psychopaths.
on August 7, 2008 at 8:27 am Durck

No harm in wishful thinking, but I doubt he’s toying with anyone. See what this Myers has wrought?

Michael’s right. Let Father Joe handle that one.
on August 7, 2008 at 10:15 am Michael

magi

Don’t you realize that he is nothing but a coward who hides behind a monitor and a keyboard?

What we’re talking about is an incorrigible and reckless psychopath with NO sound judgment and NO common sense. We’re spitting in the wind with him.

Fr. Joe along with many others, including myself, have been back and forth with this guy, to no avail. We don’t realize that we’re just a handful of dummies who don’t know what we’re talking about and that he knows it all. He must be a relative of Einstein.

I guess that this is what the Lord meant when He said : “Don’t cast your pearls before swine”

I have to be honest when I say that so much of this stuff (P.Z. Myers desecrating the Eucharist,, Obama and the right to choose to kill your children and the dying, Fr. Francis Mary Stone and the widow, and the insidious remarks of this guy) pisses me off extremely.
I can’t help it.

Since Jesus commands us to love one another unconditionally, we have to admonish those who break His laws. To be silent in the face of wrongdoing is worse that what people like this say and do. It has to come a point when one begins to realize that he/she is preaching to a concrete wall.

These kinds of things make me shake my head in disbelief.

(shaking my head as I hit the submit comment button)
on August 7, 2008 at 2:07 pm magi

I know, I know, Michael. So very hard NOT to say anything, sometimes. Some of these comments are just so freakishly insane that I honestly do wonder if the commentor’s are not being serious. That they have the gall, the abject vileness in printing their trash on a priest’s webpage–as if we don’t know that’s deliberate. Father knows that too.

What the heck is going on over there on Myers’ blog–what is he breeding, you know?

Anyway, enough. You’re absolutely right and I’m not going to waste any more time and energy reading, thinking about, or commenting on their filth.

Promise. God Bless.
on August 7, 2008 at 4:33 pm Michael

magi

God will not be mocked!

I spoke to a dear priest friend yesterday regarding professor Myers. He was away for a while only to return to find the Myer’s story posted on a bulletin board in his community.
It nausiated him.

My friend is a very holy man and has made many appearances on EWTN.

The fact is that we are soldiers of Christ called to combat these things as they arise.

I’ve been praying for two things here.
First, that this man repents, and secondly for reparation to the Sacred Heart of Jesus,the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and to the entire mystical body of Christ.

Whatever happens to Jesus, happens to all of us. I’m not going to sit back and watch my Lord and God be mocked, nor my Mother, nor my brothers and sisters.
It’s not going to happen.

We know that God loves this sinner and hates the sin. We can pray that God will convert him.
God desires his conversion more than we do.
He did it with Saul (St. Paul).

Myers needs to be knocked on his (you know what) like Saul, and so do those dummies that sent him consecrated hosts.

Pray and send emails. The addresses are listed above.
on August 11, 2008 at 7:32 am magi

Thanks, Michael, for your straightforwardness. To return the favor, I’m posting a statement recently released and posted by a prominent atheist, regarding Prof Myers:

“Atheists have a major image problem. There’s a reason that when people ask me what I believe I have to say with a smile: “I’m an atheist…but a friendly atheist.”

…These “new atheists” are the dark under belly of atheism. In books, blogs, and public statements, they sell us ideological porn, sophomoric rants that feed our dark sides and reinforce our own unfair stereotypes about the “other,” i.e. the religious.

Yet all of this does far more harm than good. The addictive nature of their rhetoric radicalizes us and leads us to an ever more closed off conversation about how we are superior and everyone else is delusional.

In the process, we miss out on working together with religious communities around shared common values and problems. And when their self-promoting atheist punditry is picked up by either the mainstream press or the religious media, we as a community of atheists incur deep self-inflicted wounds, with news coverage feeding the stereotype that we are a bunch of intolerant and arrogant eccentrics.

Consider this recent article at the National Catholic Register. Titled “The Face of the New Atheism,” it profiles PZ Myers and his rants against the Eucharist and the Catholic community. Notice the key words emphasized. The dominant image of atheism portrayed in the article is one of “hate,” “contempt,” “dogmatism,” “a junior high level understanding of religion,” “irate,” “incredulous,” “bigoted”…the list goes on.

Is this how we really want Catholics to view us? Do we really want a group of moderately religious Americans–who polls show otherwise prize science, reason, and stand for many of the same values that we hold dear–to think of us through the prism of PZ Myers?

The image of atheism doesn’t have to be this way….

The points of emphasis for the rest of the public should be on “strong community member and leaders,” “teachers,” “listeners,” “working with others on common problems,” “tolerant,” “engaged,” “open-minded,” “pragmatic,” “improving society,” “cares about people and social issues…”

This is the “new atheism” that we should promote, not an image of attacks and intolerance.”

Oh yes.
on August 11, 2008 at 8:55 am Michael

magi,

Maybe you should write a letter to the National Catholic Register if you aren’t in agreement with the article’s choice of words.

All I can say to you is that God respects your decision not to believe in Him. He gave everyone the ability to choose fire or water and we have to live by the decisions that we make. I have to also tell you that most of the souls that are in hell are there because they refused to believe in the existence of God.

I think that you “atheists” have a tougher time proving that God doesn’t exist than we do proving that He does. Take a ride along the Northeast extension (rt 476 north) of the Pennsylvania turnpike in the autumn. Notice the beautiful blaze of colors and the landscape and ask yourself how everything got there.
When your finished doing that, look up at the thousands of stars in the sky.
Did you put it there? Did I?
Think of the miracle of birth. How can anyone witness a beautiful baby being born then deny the existence of God?

I would really love to know how many “atheists” experienced a sudden conversion on September 11, 2001. It amazed me how quickly the churches filled up, prayer filled the internet, and the amount of abortions suddenly dropped.

In the words of my beloved mentor and friend Fr. John Corapi:

“There aren’t any atheists in foxholes”

God bless you.
on August 11, 2008 at 10:32 am Michael

magi,

My last post was intended to be direct toward the author of that statement….the Atheist.
on August 11, 2008 at 1:42 pm magi

The reason I posted that for you was to note that even the athiests are speaking out again the likes of SoMG and Myers.

In other words, those folks are too much even for other atheists!!!

In Christ,
on August 11, 2008 at 4:01 pm Michael

magi

Thank you for sending.
It’s a clear indication that those people, and note that I’ve written “people” and not atheists have the natural law written in their hearts. Where did that come from and how did that get there ???????????

They already know that it’s very wrong to kill another human being, atheists or not. They know that it’s wrong to steal too.

In the intro to Mother Angelica LIVE we hear her speak these words:

“SEE IN YOU THE LOVE AND COMPASSION OF JESUS”

It’s God within us who enables us to choose good and to do good.

We can’t take credit for anything.

God bless.
on August 12, 2008 at 7:38 am magi

Michael,

Yes, I should have referred to the atheists as ‘people.’ More over, they’re our brothers and sisters, whether or not they acknowledge the fact.

And , as you point out, they also possess the same free will as we all do.

Believe is a gift of grace; a gift from God and those who are atheist are no further from God than we are, actually. We recognize Him in everyone and everything around us. They don’t.

But, as we know, wanting to believe is the beginning. Wanting to believe is, in fact, believing.

In Christ,
on August 12, 2008 at 11:11 am Michael

magi……right!

They BELIEVE that there is no God which proves that they possess the ability to believe.
It’s just that their belief system is distorted and misguided.

I think that in their heart of hearts they already know that God exists, but they want some kind of manifestation. They’re blind. All one needs to do for real proof is to look in any direction and ask how it got there. Their other reason for choosing to be an “atheist” is because they don’t want any accountability.
They want to go through life self-willed and in a perpetual state of sin. Very sad.

Remember the words of Jesus to Thomas after His resurrection.
on August 12, 2008 at 12:24 pm Mary

MARY: Dear Fr. Joe in Christ, The thing that bothers me the most about this whole situation is the seeming diminishment of [their] ability to reason.

FATHER JOE:

Yes, I would agree that there is a serious problem in reasoning; but further, I see defects in civility, empathy and imagination. Dr. Myers, himself, seems to like being a maverick drawing personal attention. It is no secret that the Internet can quickly make celebrities out of little men. Those who “think they are smart” and the impressionable are easily awed by jargon even by third rate minds, no matter whether from a scientist, theologian or philosopher. Those attracted to such fickle flames bask in the anonymity of this technology, posting nasty remarks, pictures and videos, supposing all the time that nothing will ever be traced back to them. Dr. Myers does not seem to care if he hurts others. The fact that many take solace and offer noble witness in the cause of faith does not measure any credit, only ridicule. Like Karl Marx, he regards religion as a drug, something which retards the mind and gives false hope. No doubt he would argue that the great scientists among Christians and Jews made their contributions despite or in opposition to religious faith, and not as an expression of their devotion to God’s majesty and a desire to know the mysteries of his creation. I know a heart surgeon who gives God the credit for his successes in the operating room. God, he says, literally stills and guides his hand. I would rather have him opening me up than a “shaky-handed” atheist doctor any day! As for imagination, a shortcoming in this regard stifles advancement in any discipline. A theologian can rigidly interpret Scripture and castigate science as a danger to faith. I even read one fundamentalist who so opposed evolution that he argued the devil planted fossils just to sow the seed of doubts and lies in our minds. No, I do not think so. God’s creation is intelligible and he has given us the reasoning powers to explore and know it. Science compliments theology, it is not its enemy. Further, one cannot hold certain postulates from science while also clinging to directly contradictory ones in religion. Such represents a faulty epistemology. The Catholic Church, through her universities and so much more, is a friend to science. God’s created order might be more surprising than we ever thought. The Christian imagination embraces mystery and knows that we have not exhausted all there is to know.

Those scientists with the greatest and most open-ended imaginations have been the ones who have given us the most staggering discoveries. Even those of us who have trouble following the math of string theory and who get headaches from chaos theory, can respect the genius that would make such leaps. Atheism and science seem more contradictory to me than science and religion. Atheism inherently represents a closed mind, a lack of imagination. It is true that not all religions can be right, but why is it that men and women of all cultures and times have had religion? Why are there so many similarities regarding sacrifice to a deity or deities? Why do cultures with little or no interaction have views about the afterlife? Why do so many want to survive the grave? Is the desire for immortality pointing to a great mystery or is it the result of a defective and dishonest gene? Could it be that we are wired for faith and worship? And if so, who or what did the wiring? What is behind the big bang? Could there be intelligence in the universe that we have not discovered with the telescope that would fit the definition of God? I am amazed that certain scientists are more willing to believe in aliens or even UFOs, but not in a God and his angels. They will argue for the BIG BANG, but refuse to inquire about what was happening prior to the singularity and explosive creative moment.

MARY: For example, the disparage we find between the UMM code of conduct and the conclusion that Prof. Myer’s actions are defensible. How can something be both “reprehensible” and acceptable at the same time?

FATHER JOE: The situation is not logically explained because such is not possible. The sad truth is that Dr. Myers is being protected by his friends and colleagues who also have no respect for the religious sensibilities of others. If Dr. Myers wore a sheet and burned a cross while hanging a dummy of a black man (in effigy), I suspect he would have been quickly shown the door for the unpardonable crime of racism. Indeed, use of the “N” word would be enough to get him canned. But he could name-call Christians and commits an act that he knew would offend Catholics as sacrilege with no censure whatsoever. Instead of a host nailed to a Koran; I suspect he would have faced more discipline had it been a naked Barbie doll screwed to a copy of Jong’s FEAR OF FLYING. Sexism cannot be tolerated either. However, bashing religion is okay! No, this is wrong, terribly wrong. Dr. Myers desecrated what Catholics consider as the Holy of Holies and he need not worry about his job security or any punishment from the school. Note the sign of disrespect this sends to Catholic students and alumni. The university is saying that YOU do not matter. Bill Donohue is right, Catholic bashing has become the one acceptable bigotry.

MARY: Another one is the claim that his actions were merely free speech. How does one not get it that free speech needs to be speech – not incited and video taped action?

FATHER JOE: What happens if this situation escalates? Will Dr. Myers take credit when churches are vandalized and tabernacles are destroyed so that hosts might be desecrated? Will he post pictures of priests and nuns beaten in the streets so that his hoodlums can steal the hosts and oils for the sick?

MARY: How do so many people think that it was ok to enter into a church and take something that the people in that church hold dear and say that no harm was done because a) the Eucharist has little monetary value and b) it was given away freely. Would this thinking be applicable if a student pocketed an exam from Prof. Myers classroom and published it online? Free speech is a reasonable avenue to accommodating differences of opinion; whereas, desecration does not. One preserves human dignity, freedom, and thought. The other is disrespectful and diminishes the dignity of all.

FATHER JOE: The host is extended to believers who want to receive Holy Communion. Missalettes make it very clear that those who are not Catholic and who are not in a state of grace are NOT INVITED to take the sacrament. Catholics believe in a “closed table” and as such, these villains in the news have taken what does not belong to them. The purpose of the Eucharist is to feed God’s people with the living presence of Christ. This Eucharist is the bread of life and the cup of salvation. We receive it in Holy Communion and we adore the host in the Monstrance. Any other use is prohibited. Those who defile the host or who receive it unworthily (including the enablers of abortion) receive not life but judgment. Desecration is not dialogue, it is terrorism.

MARY: I believe that many are taught to criticize – but we are not taught to think critically. We are taught to question – but we are not taught how to find comprehensive answers. We fall prey to a radical subjectivity – but we, as a society, so desperately need a deeper sense of objectivity. A sense that truth is truth all the time and can apply to all even when we disagree.

FATHER JOE: Yes, what you say is true!
on August 12, 2008 at 7:22 pm Michael

I just sent the chancellor and the president of the university another email request to fire him asap. What he did is construed as a hate crime and is completely unacceptable.

All of the negative publicity has to be hurting them, regardless of their policy. I know that I wouldn’t send my daughter back to a university that teaches people to hate.

Imagine….just imagine, if this situation involved and African American or a minority.

The —- would have hit the fan and his sorry rear end would be in the unemployment line or maybe some place a lot worse.

We might even see him and his lawyer on CNN telling Larry King all about it.
on August 12, 2008 at 7:26 pm Durck

Father Joe,

May I quote your statement concerning the Eucharist in order to answer a question regarding the ‘free-gift’ made by a poster on another site (re: Mark Shea’s article)? Someone answered her question, but your explanation would ’stamp’ the original response.

If you’d prefer I give you the name of the site, I will.

FATHER JOE: Sure, use it if it helps… take care!
on August 13, 2008 at 2:38 am Mary

Wow, Fr. Joe. Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I told my mom a story about this theologian who is also an atheist who worked for many years at a seminary but now works at a Catholic university. She told my dad and my dad (who is 80) called me today to talk about it. He kept saying things like, “how is that possible, “that just doesn’t make sense,” and “it defies logic.” I answered by saying, “you’re right, dad, it doesn’t make sense, it’s not logical.” Then I tried the whole wheat and weeds thing. That didn’t work. Then I tried to comfort him with “that’s why we are teachers.” He said that was good then he just went back to the first set of comments, “it just doesn’t add up.” Finally, he said, baffled by the whole idea, “someone needs to take the person who hired her out to the woodshed.” For him, the black and white answer was the best one. The one that recognizes that someone *allowed* an atheist to be a Catholic theologian. Someone with authority messed up. It was the missing piece. I just smiled with a sort of longing for that kind of clarity.

I think that is what is happening now with PZ Myers. (I haven’t shared that story with dad, yet)

Keep praying!
Sincerely in Christ, MaryH
on February 20, 2009 at 3:55 am pwl

My unfortunate experience with Associate Professor PZ Myers began one week ago today on Darwin Day, Thursday Feb 12th. I posted a question about an article about Darwin and his climate science related work that he conducted while traveling in South America. Almost immediately the pharyngula hooligans began verbally assaulting me with claims that I was a “denier, liar” (of human caused global warming). The shocker was that I simply asked a question precisely because I was *ignorant* on that topic which is often discussed on their web site. My mistake was assuming that I’d be treated fairly. I was in for a surprise.

Over the next five days till Monday the 16th I interacted with many “members” of the pharyngula including – much to my shock – another science teacher! His name is Nerd of Redhead, OM. The OM indicates a rank within the pharyngula cult that gives him voting off the web site powers if you offend him. Well not putting up with being chased out of a science blog web site simply for asking a science question I undertook five days of intensive comment posting with numerous pharyngula cult members. Not one supported my point of view. I found this very strange. The conversation shifted almost immediately from climate science to why they were behaving nasty to me, why they were calling me childish names, why I asked over and over.

Finally on Monday morning I was informed by Nerd of Redhead, OM that there is an official pharyngula web site policy written and advocated and imposed by the Associate Professor PZ Myers that is known as “Open Season on Fresh Meat”. This policy is here: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/01/open_season_on_fresh_meat.php

The second paragraph of the policy sums it up nicely: “I want my commenters to be uncivil. There is no virtue in politeness when confronted with ignorance, dishonesty, and delusion. I want them to charge in to the heart of the issue and shred the frauds, without hesitation and without faltering over manners. These demands for a false front of civility are one of the strategies used by charlatans who want to mask their lack of substance — oh, yes, it would be so god—-ed rude to point out that a huckster is lying to you. I am quite happy that we have a culture of being rude to frauds here.” – Associate Professor PZ Myers, “Open Season on Fresh Meat”.

The second sentence of the third paragraph is the real shocker for me: “This is a blog by an educator and scientist.” – Associate Professor PZ Myers, “Open Season on Fresh Meat”.

As soon as a learned about the existence of this highly aggressive and indiscriminate policy towards anyone with a different view (I don’t support or deny global warming since I don’t understand the science – I’m ignorant and wish to learn about the science) I informed the pharyngula cult members that I was shocked and that they were no longer relevant as they were simply following orders from their fearless cult leader.

Within the hour they had revoked my web site comment posting permissions. They had censured my comments as not wanted.

What shocks me the most is that I had respected their opinions and that is why I was asking a science based question on their web site. Associate Professor PZ Myers claims in his “Open Season on Fresh Meat” policy that he is a “science educator” yet that very policy is designed to stifle the asking of questions on his web site. In fact I was chased away not once but twice! you see I returned today (well yesterday now) and attempted a calm and direct dialog to have them get that their bad attitude was hurting them and is diametrically opposed to the University Code of Conduct that Associate Professor PZ Myers is supposedly committed to.

As of today they have banned me yet again and this time it’s a permanent ban with a promise to delete all my posts. They censored my posts that are critical of their policy by deleting all my comments posted in the two primary threads where I posted. For all I know every post I’ve ever made there has been deleted in an act of censorship by a science educator. The digital books are being burned at pharyngula!

I write to you in common cause to have Associate Professor PZ Myers at a minimum publicly rebuked by the University where he is employed as an Associate Professor.

He hides behind academic freedom. As I pointed out to him that it is a shockingly low level of standards to stoop to feel the need to invoke academic freedom. Let’s see what this means, Associate Professor PZ Myers commits during the day to the highest standards of the Code of Conduct and at night he embraces a “Open Season on Fresh Meat” policy that is diametrically opposed to that very Code of Conduct! This is two faced beyond imagination. This is hypocritical beyond the pale. It rips the Code of Conduct to shreds and nullifies it from having any force or effect upon the faculty of the State run institution.

Fortunately I had the foresight to “save the web page as” a new file name after many of my comment posts so that I have a FULL RECORD OF THE ENTIRE now censored and deleted conversation that took place at pharyngula.

IF you ever post comments to pharyngula I suggest that you record the web page after each and every comment post with a new file named that incorporates the date and a alphabetical sequence number to build an evidence trail of their conduct and yours.

If any of you have any experience writing a complaint to the University please contact me as I’m interested in leveraging your learning so as to produce an effective formal complaint against Associate Professor PZ Myers.

So it’s not just the religious that are offended by Associate Professor PZ Myers, it’s also us die hard atheist scientists! I told Associate Professor PZ Myers that he should be ashamed of himself for his bad attitude towards science and science education. He did not care for my comments, he censored me by deleting my pointed criticisms of his conduct and policy, he and his gang of pharyngula thugs orchestrated a highly organized campaign to chase me away.

The net result is that I still don’t have an answer to my original science questions posed to them. The net result is that they chased away a person ignorant of the details of climate science using childish name calling and other sophisticated and abusive social control techniques that are highly inappropriate for a working Associate Professor at a State Funded University. The net result is that I’m very motivated to document and publicize by disturbing contact with them.

Thank you for your time, and once again if you have any advice on the filing the formal complaint please contact me.

All the best,

pwl

anoffendedscientist@gmail.com
on February 20, 2009 at 4:31 am pwl

You can read more about my misadventures with pharyngula here: http://www.climateaudit.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=674
on February 20, 2009 at 6:45 pm Dan

I made the mistake of attempting to ask P.Z. and his minions a couple of questions but basically was called names & asked to leave. To me they were serious philosophical questions that I wanted P.Z.’s followers to think about. I’ll ask again here, in the hopes that Madalen might answer…..

I find that most atheists say that one should discard “faith” because one is not able to prove that which one has faith in…. (this seems to be the main argument that those “enlightened” followers of P.Z. make) So I asked them:

If everything in the universe is made up of assorted arrangements of sub-atomic particles – some of the arrangements giving rise to brains & electro-chemical reactions that give rise to what we like to call “mind” or “thought” – Why does it seem that atheists have “faith” that other arrangements of sub-atomic particles which give rise to electro-chemical reactions (i.e. those in automobiles & computers – do NOT give rise to “thoughts” or “minds”) I asked them to PROVE to me that my computer just didn’t “think” that it wanted to visit their website, or that my car wasn’t “thinking” that it was doing me a favor by giving me a ride?

I also challenged their assumption/faith in free-will. If everything in the universe is caused by matter/energy interactions, then I proposed that all that we might consider “free-will” is an illusion – thus their “enlightened atheistic positions” were just as much a choice for them as my faith was to me….

They got mad – so much for being enlightened…
on February 21, 2009 at 2:55 pm Lady Godless

Dan, I’m sorry you were not treated well at Myers’ board. I’ve read Pharyngula on occasion, but I’ve never posted there.

How do I know that non-animal, non-cerebral electrochemical processes do not produce some kind of consciousness?

I don’t.

In fact, I suppose that there may even be consciousnesses in my brain besides the one that is currently engaged in composing this message.

Before medical science decided that hemispherectomy was the way to go, some cases of intractable epilepsy were treated by surgically severing the corpus callosum — the thick bundle of nerves that allows two halves of your brain to communicate. This operation produced an odd side effect: some patients seemed to end up sharing their bodies with another entity. This phenomenon has been called Alien Hand Syndrome: one hand — and often one whole side of the body — would seem to be under the control of some mysterious, nameless other person.

For instance, one man would choose the food he wanted to eat with his left hand. But then his right hand would grab his selection, and put it back — and then choose something else. He would take a walk, but then his right side would eventually decide that he had walked far enough, and would refuse to cooperate any further unless he turned to go home.

One woman was a conservative Republican all her life, right up until she suffered damage to one side of her brain. The undamaged side of her brain seemed to take over her language faculties at that point, and it apparently held very different opinions, because it was wont to make her say such things as, “conservatives should be wiped off the face of the earth!” — stuff like that.

All of that by way of illustrating that we have no direct access to any subjectivity other that that which appears to us to be our own individual selves. And that therefore we cannot really know anything about a non-communicative consciousness, even one residing in our own heads. A non-animal, non-communicating consciousness would be hopelessly beyond our ken.

A while back, Father Joe said that though God hears our thoughts, he does not experience our emotional states with us, so it would seem that Catholic thought holds that we are each truly alone in our own subjectivity, and that not even God can share our access to our own consciousness.

As for free will, there have been experiments that have shown that our brains make decisions ~before~ we are consciously aware of having decided anything. Beyond that, I don’t (as an atheist) have a firm reason to hold either for or against free will as a concept. And in fact, I’m not entirely sure what all counts as “free will” in the first place.

FATHER JOE: I would prefer to say that God “knows” our thoughts, but (outside the incarnation) he does not experience or “share” our emotional states. I am no authority on the subject, but as for human consciousness and awareness, it seems to be somewhat layered. The fact that great authors can write fictional stories with a whole host of differing characters seems to indicate that whole worlds, albeit intentional, can exist in the human mind.
on February 21, 2009 at 6:52 pm Dan

Madalen – thanks for your thoughtful reply. When I was visiting P.Z.’s blog I was so surprised at the complete ignorance of the Catholic faith (for instance they think Catholics believe that the world was created 6000 years ago) that I started trying to point out their errors – when my faith – and faith itself was attacked – as “unscientific” and “unprovable” – I tried to point out that they themselves have much “faith” too.

I just remembered too, that I told them I was a solipsist and believed that they were all just in my mind. I asked them to scientifically PROVE that they weren’t. Right about this time P.Z. asked me to leave the forum – which I gladly did. It was truly amazing that a guy who professes to be a man of science would cling so stubbornly to his beliefs that he and his followers didn’t even want to learn, or investigate, the beliefs of the Catholics that they attacked.