OPENING COMMENTS: The challenge here is not important, the deceits of Planned Parenthood are constantly in the news and even some of the YouTube videos posted here speak about PP deception. What is interesting is that during a discussion of Dr. Myers’ desecration of the Eucharist, one of his defenders (SOMG) revealed that she/he was an abortionist: “Finally, I challenge you and your readers to produce even one recent or current Planned Parenthood publication, in any medium, which contains even one lie about any medical question. I PROMISE THAT IF YOU SUCCEED IN DOING THIS, I WILL STOP PROVIDING ABORTIONS AND NEVER DO ANOTHER ONE AS LONG AS I LIVE.” The person remains anonymous, but makes so many comments that it rains down like spam. More derisive comments have been deleted. Do not believe that the murderer of children has any real intention about joining the unemployment line just because Planned Parenthood cannot be trusted.
The following “Eight Great Deceptions of Planned Parenthood,” taken together, comprise one of the biggest lies ever perpetrated upon the American public. This lie continues to deceive the uninformed and the unsuspecting. (Excerpted in part from a 1994 CR Ministries publication.):
(1) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims to advocate the freedom of women to choose if and when they will have children, without government interference. Fact: From the beginning, Planned Parenthood has sought mandatory population control measures. Over the years it has proposed our government implement “compulsory abortion for out-of-wedlock pregnancies,” federal entitlement “payments to encourage abortion,” “compulsory sterilization for those who have already had two children,” and “tax penalties” for existing large families.
(2) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims to serve the needs of poor women and low-income families. Fact: Planned Parenthood has always targeted minorities, the unwanted, and the disadvantaged for family limitation, contraception, abortion, and sterilization. Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger’s “charity” was “to eliminate the stocks” that she felt were most detrimental “to the future of the race and the world.”
(3) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims to be a privately funded, non-profit family planning organization. Fact: Planned Parenthood helps ban families, not plan families. As an association of over 300 separately incorporated organizations worldwide, a vast portion of its funding comes right from American taxpayers’ pocketbooks. In 1993 alone, almost $160 million came from the Title X appropriations of the Public Health Service Act and from 18 other federal statues!
(4) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims its system of birth control is safe and effective. Fact: Absolutely none of Planned Parenthood’s birth control systems are 100% effective — from the pill or diaphragm to the IUD. A teen practicing “safe sex” with condoms has nearly an 87% chance of pregnancy. The Planned Parenthood system virtually guarantees women will get pregnant and in the end be “forced” to fall back on Planned Parenthood’s ultimate birth control practice — abortion.
(5) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims that it is in the forefront of the battle against sexually transmitted diseases. Fact: Through Planned Parenthood’s distribution of non-barrier birth control contraceptives to 80% of its clients, syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, hepatitis, granuloma, chancroid, and even AIDS are being encouraged. Recent studies indicate the use of Planned Parenthood-favored birth control devices may actually enhance the risk of sexually transmitted diseases.
(6) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims that sex education is a necessary and effective means of preventing teen pregnancies. Fact: Planned Parenthood’s sex education programs have backfired, actually increasing teen pregnancies. A 1986 Louis Harris poll of teens who took “comprehensive” sex education have a 50% higher rate of sexual activity that their “unenlightened” peers.
(7) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims its efforts to provide abortion services have at last removed the specter of dangerous back alley abortions from our land. Fact: Abortions may be legal, but they are not safe. A UCLA study by two obstetrical and gynecological professors conclude “abortion can be a killer.” Other complications are at least partially responsible for the steep rise in female medical care costs over the last decade.
(8) Deception: Planned Parenthood claims that its birth control, sex education, and abortion juggernaut is essential to control rapid population growth. Fact: Instead of worrying about Planned Parenthood’s “population bomb,” many researchers are concerned about a “birth dearth.” Fertility in the U.S. has been steadily declining for two decades. The worldwide birthrate is now falling faster than the mortality rate for the first time in recorded history.
FATHER JOE: I do not believe you. I think you will always make wiggle room. But thank you for telling us THAT YOU ARE AN ABORTIONIST. Now it is clear why you are upset. Abortion is your “meat and potatoes”. I really don’t think I can tolerate baby killers on my blog. I will pray for your conversion.
SOMG: The perceived overlap between the RTL movement and the anti-contraceptive movement is extremely bad for the public image of the RTL movement. It causes many people who might otherwise think seriously and objectively about the rights of the unborn, and the obligations to it (if any) incurred by the woman at conception, to write you off without a hearing. If I were a RTL I would definitely advise funding some RTL but also pro-contraception organizations. Imagine how much more seriously potential converts and neutrals would take an organization like Crisis Pregnancy Centers when they claim their goal is to stop abortions, and how many more women they could lure in to watch their propaganda, if they handed out free condoms as well as free pregnancy tests. You want to know what else is just god-awful for RTLism’s public image? The reliance on obvious medical lies (the breast cancer bugaboo, and the myth that RU-486 is dangerous). This stuff may bring in money but it excludes too many intelligent people from your audience.
FATHER JOE: As for the overlap between the Right to Life movement and our anti-contraception campaign, it is linked by necessity. Birth control establishes a contraceptive mentality which in turn leads to the crime of abortion. Further, various forms of contraception, certain pills and the IUD are inherently abortifacient. The medical consequences from contraception are not lies but based upon sound research. Of course, those organizations like Planned Parenthood are quick to pay off their experts and doctors to ridicule any danger signs. Contraception and abortion is big business and many have become rich from induced sterility and the murder of children.
SOMG: (* Shaking head sadly *) Father Joe, you wrote: “The medical consequences from contraception are not lies but based upon sound research. Of course, those organizations like Planned Parenthood are quick to pay off their experts and doctors to ridicule any danger signs.” You have just accused PP, a recipient of Federal grants and gatherer of epidemiological data, of scientific fraud. Do you have any idea how big a scandal that would be if it were if it were true? If you could prove it, you could shut PP down and send some of their employees to prison. Your comment is an example of EXACTLY what I’m talking about: the RTL movement’s reckless use of obvious scientific lies. Don’t you see that you are wearing your detachment from reality on your sleeve? I already pointed out how this alienates potential converts and neutrals, I now add that this is especially true among health-care professionals, whose support would most benefit the RTL movement. You’d do better with a different approach. How about something like this: “Yes, an abortion is much safer, cheaper, less painful and more convenient than giving birth, but most parents say parenting is the most intense and gratifying love-experience in human life. Don’t you want to enjoy it sooner rather than later?”
FATHER JOE: Planned Parenthood is one of the most reprehensible organizations on the planet. They get public money and they support the campaigns of those who support partial birth infanticide and abortion on demand. They are a powerful lobby group and seem to own a number of politicians. They are not above deception and why you find this so surprising is beyond me. Their tactics and deceits are well documented by pro-life groups and fair-minded people. Not only are they dishonest about the dangers and effects of certain forms of contraception, but their strategies are also deplorable. While they supported abortion in cases of gender selection in the U.S., they opposed it in India where the majority of aborted children were female. At the Cairo Conference they convinced Egyptian officials that certain members of pro-life delegations (as from the Vatican, Guatamala, and other nations) were security risks so that they would miss important votes. They supported the government sponsored enforced abortions in China, particularly when they were given a hand in providing supplies and services. They have remained true to their roots in racism and eugenics. They are one of the chief enemies of the Catholic Church. The bishop of Lincoln Nebraska rightly excommunicated Catholic members of PP in his diocese.
SOMG: You wrote: “They [PP] have remained true to their roots in racism and eugenics.” How? What do you think PP does today that is motivated by racism or eugenics? Regarding roots, PP was founded in the first half of the Twentieth Century, when racism was the norm and non-racists were considered weirdos. Racism was by no means the only strange idea floating around at that time–for example, the Catholic Church had this idea that women should not be allowed to vote, and successfully prevented France from extending voting rights to women until the 1940s.
FATHER JOE: I don’t know much about such French regional issues. There were many Catholics (men) in the U.S. that supported the woman’s right to vote.
SOMG: Also, Father Joe, you wrote: “Birth control establishes a contraceptive mentality which in turn leads to the crime of abortion. ” I hear that argument a lot. Currently one of the most anti-contraceptive-mentality countries on the planet is the Philippines, and they have a higher per-capita abortion rate than the USA (according to pro-choice groups AND RTL groups such as Physicians for Life AND national and international monitoring agencies). It’s difficult to measure details since abortion is illegal (both the provider and the patient are punishable by up to six years in prison and the government sends out pregnant police women as RTL spies) but the indications are that a large fraction of pregnancies which get aborted there are conceived by women attempting to use Catholic-approved family-planning methods such as NFP.
FATHER JOE: NFP rates are as high as 98% effective. Pro-abortion groups add in those couples who deliberately use NFP to get pregnant to insure lower percentages. It is a deception. The problem in the Philippines is poverty, past exploitation by outsiders, and (while their use is immoral) the Planned parenthood giveaway of defective and leaky condoms (25-35% failure rates).
SOMG: In the USSR during the 1980s, contraceptives were legal but because of the dysfunctional economy they were available only to high-ranking members of the Communist Party who had access to special shops. The result was a very high abortion rate indeed. It was not unusual to meet YOUNG women with more than ten abortions in their histories.
FATHER JOE: Abortion was legal in the Soviet Union going back to the 1920’s. A defective view of the human person and the fall out from Communist dogma had a part to play in their rates.
SOMG: Not that I care what you think but for the sake of truth I will tell you that abortion is not my “meat and potatoes”. It’s just one of the things I do.
FATHER JOE: The fact that you are not upset bothers me. You take money to kill children. That is the bottom line.
SOMG: And I’ll add another one: I challenge you and your readers to identify a single society in human history that ever reduced its abortion rate by banning contraceptives or making them less available. HAHAHAHAHAAHAH Father Joe is afraid to debate an honest expert!
FATHER JOE: Sounds to me that you are losing it. Artificial contraception was once illegal in the U.S. and in much of the West. Christian churches were unanimous in condemning it until the Anglicans broke ranks back in 1930. Except for abortifacients, who is talking about totally banning artificial contraceptives today? The way you pose the question is deceptive. Contraception should be discouraged, chastity, virginity and NFP should be promoted, and abortion should be outlawed. And those in your profession should face prison time for homicide.
SOMG: Father Joe, I agree with you that abortion is homicide. But it is JUSTIFIABLE homicide. Meanwhile I note that no one has addressed either of my two Planned Parenthood related challenges: to identify anything PP does today that is motivated by racism or eugenics, and to identify a single medical lie in any current or recent publication by PP. I bet no one will. Because you can’t, and you know it. Father Joe, you are not doing the RTL movement any favors by accusing PP of “eugenics” and “racism” without justification. Misusing loaded words like that is another way RTLs cause reasonable people to dismiss them without a hearing. Remember the Boy Who Cried Wolf? Another word RTLs hurt their cause by misusing is “genocide”. Also RTL jargon words and phrases like “abortion mill”, “pro-abortion politician”, “pro-abort” and “babykiller” should not be used except with other committed RTLs. To everyone else these words broadcast the message that the person saying them is not serious. Just friendly advice. I post it because I’m pretty sure you RTLs will not take it. These practices, which alienate potential converts and neutrals, also increase RTL fundraising, which is really what it’s all about. The RTL movement will never outgrow them. The only evidence I see to the contrary is the still-pretty-recent emergence of pro-gay RTL organizations. Strategically that’s a step in the right direction.
FATHER JOE: Murdering babies is never justifiable homicide! And by the way, I did not appreciate your peculiar temper tantrum, endless spam of this site, and invoking atheists and fans of Dr. Myers to invade this site by placing a link on his blog and urging them to assault me. And I know a number of Catholic medical doctors who would seriously disagree with you. What are you and your pals trying to do here? Would people expect a site operated by a Catholic priest to promote sacrilege against sacraments or the murder of children? You disgruntled atheists are quite upsetting with your misaligned humanistic values.
Birth control does not prevent abortion. Indeed, it encourages abortion as a backup. It creates a contraceptive mentality that views the child as disposable. Notice the logical progression in this nation with the advancement of the birth control pill in 1960 and then abortion in the 1970’s. This did not happen by accident. There is also the matter of abortifacient forms of so-called birth control. But let us be candid, you support abortion as well and will make any argument to insure it remains readily available.
Sorry, the pill can fail as can a condom. Birth control also breeds selfishness and a lack of self-control. People cut corners and behavior is modified in the direction of laxity. They take chances because they want sex and someone forgot the rubber or pill. Presto-chango, pregnant!
Married couples have a duty to participate with God in their procreation of a family. Single people should remain virginal and NFP requires periodic abstinence. Such lifestyles are possible, but we are getting little help from a culture of death and a hedonistic society. I would have people act virtuously. The conjugal act was made for both fidelity and procreation; it was not fashioned as an impersonal act of recreation without consequences. Even if there is no conception, fornication, adultery and sodomy harm the persons who engage in such forbidden activities. Human persons are damaged when such great powers are exploited or used inappropriately.
SOMG: I am [not] an athiest. I’m not.
DOCTOR M: I hope you are not censoring anyone, especially SOMG. She is making real sense, and who would better know than a woman what is right about contraception and abortion?
I have been banned from a number of RTL and Catholic sites, just because I speak a truth you all do not want to hear. The irony is that Catholics are the ultimate Pharisees. You condemn about everything sexual people want to do and yet your priests molest children. You are all two-faced hypocrites! How about that priest in the news recently who not only paid for a girl’s abortion but drove her to the clinic. When you guys are in trouble I guess the rules no longer apply!
I doubt you will even post me, such is often the response of peanut-brains. Agree or else! You are all about name-calling, particularly this Michael. Call me a godless atheist or call me a baby killer or call me a sex fiend and you think you have won the debate. SOMG makes a basic challenge and like roaches you all go running for the darkness in the cracks because you cannot stand the light. She is right and that makes you afraid and sick.
I am an atheist and quite proud to be counted among the sane percentage of humanity. There is no god or goddess or great force. People are nice and some female people I would rate as exceptionally nice, but in the final analysis, we are all just meat. My physicist friends would say okay to that but add that we are meat with mostly empty spaces. Man determines his own destiny and he can determine what is right and wrong. We need no longer be slaves to evolutionary biology or our fertility. As for abortion, a clump of cells is unimportant to me and killing a fetus means no more to me than putting down a laboratory rat. Let us put away sentimentality about such things. Yes, babies are cute, but so are puppies and I have done some pretty terrible things to them, too. It does not matter. There is no soul and no angry god who is going to judge any of us. When we die, the lights go out. That is all. While I am here I hope to make a difference, avoid pain aand have some fun.
SOMG made great challenges and there has been no response because no challenge is possible:
1. Every organization has nuts, although the Catholic Church seems to have more than its share. There is nothing about Planned Parenthood today that smacks of racism or exploitation.
2. The only liars about contraception and abortion are in the RTL community. Our medical advances, drugs and other interventions are all beneficial to women. No one gets cancer from the pill. Planned Parenthood has been wronged here and the priest and his mob should both apologize and make restitution with hefty donations to PP!
FATHER JOE: Your extremism and insanity speaks for itself. Turning back to SOMG, is there something wrong with you? Not only do you claim to be an abortionist, which is the most reprehensible occupation on the planet, but then you agree that abortion is murder but assert that it has to be done anyway. Where is your moral center? You get mad at me because you write more posts than I can possibly moderate in a timely manner. It really represents a kind of spamming. You forced this discussion into another thread about sacrilege against the Eucharist and yet you are offering strawmen challenges about contraception and abortion. You purposely go to a site where I have never posted trying to incite an angry response so that they would come back to this blog and fight your battles for you. Do you know how many vulgar postings followed you back here? In one breath you seem apologetic and then in the next you make a slur against the Catholic priesthood (deleted I should add) that more than insinuates that they are all pedophiles. Nevertheless, you still see yourself as the poor victim. I suspect you get banned from sites, not because of the logic and facts from your reasoning, but because you are a nasty and impolite person. I am a straight-talker myself, but I know moderation and do not try in any fashion to hijack someone else’s blog or webpage. I will pray for you.
SOMG: I agree with some, but not all, of Dr M’s post– content and style. I think the reference to pedophile priests should only be made as a reply to an accusation that abortion providers molest their patients more than other health-care workers do. Or maybe to make a point about cover-ups often being worse than what is covered up.
FATHER JOE: How does this match up to the very next post where you write: “Thought for the evening: Whether you’re more likely to be molested by an abortion clinic worker or a Catholic priest depends very much on your gender— which nobody can deny.” You do not need to debate me or anyone else, you can debate yourself! Most priests are good and chaste men, faithful to their celibacy, and dedicated to caring for the flocks. They neither abuse nor kill children. Abortion is always child abuse.
SOMG: Also, I am not at all clear WHY Dr M is so sure that “there is no god or goddess or great force.”
FATHER JOE: Actually, atheism is a more compatible world view with abortion than any conventional theism. If there is no author of life then one cannot get into trouble for usurping his authority and destroying the mortal lives of children.
SOMG: It seems to me that if there WERE one, it would probably be able to conceal its existance from us if it wanted to. Therefore feeling sure there isn’t one does not mean that there isn’t one. Occam’s Razor certainly argues against anything omnipotent, but who says the god or goddess or great force has to be omnipotent? Maybe there’s a limited god or goddess. The only true human answer to any question about anything supernatural is “I don’t know.” That includes the answer to whether or not we are just meat.
FATHER JOE: The notion of a god or gods not being all powerful was a more primitive stage in our religious development. You would have us backtrack. Christians, Jews and Moslems are unanimous: God must be infinite in all his perfections, all powerful, all knowing, everywhere present, all loving, etc. The gods of ancient mythology were not true deities but hypothetical middle-creatures under the lordship of Zeus. They had no real existence. Plato theorizes a helper creator entity just less than a god called a demiurge. But again, this thing was not a true god. If God is all powerful then you can only have one; otherwise their authority would overlap and clash. A proof that God is “omnipotent” and “one” is derived from creation itself: the distance between being and non-being or existence and nothingness is infinite. Only one who is the source of being and life could bring forth creation out of nothingness.
When you say that the only true answer about God’s existence is “I don’t know,” you firmly plant yourself on the fringe boundaries of atheism. The agnosticism you profess is a variation or type of classical atheism. However, if you truly did not know and left the God-question open, then the possibility exists that God is real and even that Catholics might be right. You are betting otherwise because your views and the destruction of children at your hands would not put you into get standing with him.
SOMG: Father Joe, you wrote: “Murdering babies is never justifiable homicide! ”
FATHER JOE: Yes, I stand by what I said. One can never directly intend to kill innocent children, even those in the womb. The Church believes that an embryo is imbued with a mystery or soul that makes the entity a person with a right to life.
SOMG: However, killing embryos and fetuses sometimes is [justifiable]. Not because they’re non-persons–they’re persons, all right–but because the pregnant woman owns the life-support functions. And the uterus. And the nutrients, oxygen, and water which the fetus takes from her bloodstream and uses for its own metabolism. And the bloodstream into which the fetus injects its metabolic end-products for her to process or excrete. And the cervix which the fetus is preparing to stretch wider than any human orifice should stretch. (What other body tissue has to stretch linearly more than tenfold its normal length?) And the belly which the woman has a more-than-one-in-five chance of having slashed open.
FATHER JOE: A mother shares her body with her child. It is immoral for a mother to choose not do so. Her right or dominion over her body is not absolute. She has already given herself to a man so as to get pregnant. The conjugal act represents a self-surrender that may be extended beyond the fidelity of marital love to embrace the fruit of procreation. Even if the act of intercourse and conception was coercive, the child is innocent and a mother may not escape her vocation of love. A mother is supposed to give her whole self to the demands of her child. After birth, a child has claim upon her breasts to receive life-sustaining milk. Would you contend that a woman might withhold her milk?
SOMG: Got it? The fetus is in the unfortunate but not unique position of needing something to which it is not entitled and which it can only obtain by another person’s charity.
FATHER JOE: Your view of motherhood is one of the most offensive things I have ever heard. A child in the womb or at the breast is entitled to his mother’s body, not because of charity, but out of justice. This is basic moral philosophy 101. Her choices and those of the father brought the baby into existence. Nature and the God of nature have constructed a woman’s body so that it is geared to bringing forth and nurturing human life. Abortion and infanticide is a gross violation of the natural order.
SOMG: Father Joe, you wrote: “you agree that abortion is murder but assert that it has to be done anyway.” Abortion (at the pregnant women’s request) is not murder. It is justifiable homicide. I explained this in some detail but instead of refuting my argument you deleted my post. You won’t win hearts and minds to your cause that way.
FATHER JOE: I deleted nothing. Maybe it went out with the spam? Killing innocent children is murder. Any distinction for some lesser charge of homicide is playing semantics.
MICHAEL: SoMG, why didn’t your mother abort you? She could have done it very easily and chose not to. Thank God that there was someone in your family that valued life, otherwise you wouldn’t be here making an ass of yourself.
SOMG: Michael, my mother did not abort me because I was a wanted, planned pregnancy.
FATHER JOE: By the same sad reasoning, if your mother changed her mind today, we would be allowed to perform a retro-active termination upon you. Crazy!
SOMG: No, because I am no longer inside her body or using its life-support functions or engaging in bloodstream-to-bloodstream exchange with her or getting ready to subject her to medical/surgical trauma.
FATHER JOE: Once you strip away the right to life of a person, the mere matter of temporality or changing circumstances is hardly sufficient to restore it. No, the life ethic must be consistent: from the womb to the tomb. Otherwise, no one is safe.
August 1, 2008
SOMG: What do you mean by the “life ethic”? Do you mean that no person must ever be deliberately killed?
FATHER JOE: While it may not always be evident by the manner we struggle with political questions, I subscribe to the notion of a consistent life ethic. I would give greater gravity to the issue of abortion and the right to life of innocent children. However, I believe that the value of human life is incommensurate and must be protected from all challenges: abortion, infanticide, euthanasia and/or assisted suicide, the death penalty, and unjust aggression and/or war. Given how very amoral you are, I am not surprised that you needed me to define what I meant by life ethic.
SOMG: Father Joe, doesn’t the policy of not forcing people to donate blood against their wills strip away the right to life of the patients who need transfusions? We allow some people to kill other people by withholding potentially life-saving tissues, for reasons of mere convenience in the majority of cases. Why doesn’t this violate the ethic of life and make us all potential victims? It seems to me if you’re willing to force a pregnant woman to endure full-term labor and delivery for what you call the ethic of life, then you should also be willing to force a person of either gender to donate a kidney. Donating a kidney is safer and does less long-term damage than having a baby. You shouldn’t even consider allowing eligible people to refuse to donate blood.
FATHER JOE: The situation of body integrity and pregnancy is unique and cannot be compared to the contributions made by blood donors. Giving blood or donating an organ is more intrusive to the person than collecting food for the local pantry, but it still falls under the virtues of charity and generosity. A mother’s obligation to her child falls under justice. The child has a right to the mother’s body as the cradle of life and the primary means by which that life is sustained. Every child needs a womb, not everyone needs a blood transfusion. The same could be said for organ transplants.
It would be problematic to require people to give blood or to surrender their organs. It would be preferable that they did so from an altruistic sense of responsibility to the community and of moral obligation. The decisive point for the woman is before she becomes a mother, not afterwards. Once she becomes pregnant, she is obliged to do all she can to insure that the child (a human person dependent upon her) comes to term. Neither the child’s life (who has no voice of his own), nor the mother’s takes precedence.
Further, in the case of an unborn child, it might be argued that abortion “takes away” from the child, that which he or she needs to survive. The person who wants a blood transfusion or a kidney is having nothing taken away; his problem is one of “reception”. Of course, this reasoning does not completely express the difference. A person who needs blood or an organ might die without a donor. He dies because of inaction, not because of a direct act of killing. Abortion is more than separating mother from child. The child must be murdered in the womb before the head emerges. If the unborn child emerges alive from the womb then the abortionist is lawfully obliged to contact a doctor and efforts must be made to save the premature child.
An aborted child is chopped up in the mother’s womb or burned by a saline solution or has the cranium crushed or is sucked out in pieces. A child should not be murdered in the womb simply because the mother feels inconvenienced. You really are comparing things that are quite different. I am reminded of a Monty Python skit where people are going door-to-door, signing up others as organ donors. One man signs up to give his heart. Immediately they prepare to cut him open. He thought they meant to take it when he was a natural cadaver; but no, they meant, RIGHT NOW! Just as one would not have the right to kill one man by taking his heart out so that another man might live; so too can the child not be killed so that the woman might continue to pursue her selfish lifestyle.
You are confusing a number of crucial ethical points. I suspect you are doing so deliberately in order to cloud the issues at hand. First, in the case of a mother and her child, there is a relationship between persons, not just between body parts. Second, mandatory blood or organ donation would tend to treat the human body as a thing and as community property (actually, it would probably go to the highest bidder). There is no immediate person to person relationship or intrinsic entitlement. Third, most pregnancies come through the consent of a woman to a man’s advances. Mandatory donation violates such consent and wrongly alienates a person of his or her body integrity and self-determination. The difference between this and rape is, again, the immediate and personal relationship of dependence by the innocent child upon his mother. Direct homicide is always wrong and is murder.
SOMG: You wrote: “She has already given herself to a man so as to get pregnant. The conjugal act represents a self-surrender that may be extended beyond the fidelity of marital love to embrace the fruit of procreation. ” Two things I have observed about the meaning of the sex act: it varies widely from individual to individual and from sex act to sex act; and, when one person tries to decide the meaning of another person’s sex act, the result is almost always bad, except when it’s a parent deciding for his/her child, and often even then.
FATHER JOE: How we might mentally and emotionally approach the conjugal act can vary but it has a natural meaning that cannot be subtracted or redefined without doing damage to persons. The reason that it is sometimes called the marital act is because it is meant exclusively for married couples. No one else is entitled to it. It has a two-fold meaning, fostering the fidelity or unity of the couple (fides) and it must be open to the generation of new human life (proles). Christians know marriage not simply as a natural relationship but as a sacrament, a mystery that binds them closer to Christ.
SOMG: You wrote: “Even if the act of intercourse and conception was coercive, the child is innocent and a mother may not escape her vocation of love.” Please emphasize that point as much as you can. When you write letters to politicians, please begin them with “I think abortion should be illegal in cases of rape.” If you go to RTL demonstrations, write that on a big sign and carry it. Chant “NO RAPE EXCEPTION” over and over again. You’ll be being honest and making me happy at the same time.
FATHER JOE: While you are being sarcastic, I do stress this point although the cases of pregnancy from rape are extremely rare and small. The child is not responsible for the sins of his parents. Abortion should be illegal in all cases, including situations of purported rape. I knew a girl who was the product of rape. Her mother thanks God every day that she did not make the tragic mistake of abortion. She is a wonderful girl and a joy to know. You would have killed her. I know another young woman who is missing half of her body. It was destroyed by the saline solution used to abort her. She lived anyway, with one arm and half a face. If you see her from the side, one is struck by her beauty. Then she turns her face and one can see what you did to her, or if not you, your associate murderers.
Last Series of Comments & Responses
SOMG: Today Planned Parenthood follows demand for their services. The fact that minority babies get aborted disproportionately is because minority pregnant women disproportionately choose abortion.
FATHER JOE: What you write is not true, they do target certain minorities and locate their clinics in particular neighborhoods so that they can more easily get access and influence the poor and minorities. These women are also desperate and uneducated. They easily believe the lies they are told. There is also a great deal of money that is allocated by donors just to minorities. Unless they can find immigrants and blacks willing to destroy their children, then they cannot get access to this profit in flesh.
SOMG: And Father Joe, my joke about whom you’re more likely to be molested by is only a slur on priests if you believe that abortion clinic workers molest their patients more than other health care workers. They don’t.
FATHER JOE: Abortion is murder and it requires untold agony for the unborn child. Every abortion is child abuse. Ever abortionist is a child abuser.
SOMG: Father Joe, you wrote: “The situation of body integrity and pregnancy is unique and cannot be compared to the contributions made by blood donors.” What utter nonsense. any two things can be compared. I’ll bet ten million dollars that if you mention any two things, I can compare them in less than fifteen seconds after reading them. I can even compare apples and oranges: apples are crunchier. See?
FATHER JOE: The nonsense is your failure to understand the logic of this discussion. The word “comparison” is used as in the expression, “there is no comparison”. It is used here in reference to finding a parallel or likes between abortion and giving blood or organ donation. Instead, there is an obvious disassociation in that one refers to an operation of exclusion and (in)justice and the other to donation and charity.
SOMG: You have not explained why a killing person by withholding potentially-life-saving blood donations does not violate the “ethic of life” and put us all in danger. Please do so, or admit you can’t.
FATHER JOE: It has already been explained. Abortion is the direct and intentional killing of a human person. It not only deprives the child of his right to a connection to his mother but more than a simple separation, the child must be destroyed before being evacuated from the mother’s womb. The mother and child are complete; left alone there is no deficit and after nine months she will give birth to a healthy child. A person needing a blood transfusion is not immediately or organically connected to another person. Indeed, there is a whole process by which a proper donor with the right type of blood must be discovered. A person who does not get the blood or the needed organ might die, but such happens not because of a direct act of homicide. Instead, there is a privation. It is the result of passivity, either because someone did not come forward or because the needed organ or blood was never available (as with certain cadaver organs). The ethic of life corresponds to such persons if he or she should wrongly seek euthanasia as a means to escape their pain. It would also apply to those unsavory people who think they can buy organs from the poor or have people assaulted so as to steal their organs. Such things are happening and here the ethic of life corresponds to those manhandled donors.
SOMG: You wrote: “An aborted child is chopped up in the mother’s womb or burned by a saline solution or has the cranium crushed or is sucked out in pieces. ” Not with medical abortion. Which, I am proud to say, I helped bring into the medical mainstream (in a small way).
FATHER JOE: I am beginning to wonder if maybe you are just a wannabee-abortionist? There are only so many means that an abortion can take place and my short list is pretty exhaustive. Abortifacient drugs and certain chemicals might cause spontaneous miscarriages, but abortionists must make sure than the discharge is dead. Otherwise, even the state might reckon the operation to be murder.
The so-called “medical abortion” puts the weight of the crime more heavily upon the mother and is not the usual manner they are carried out. So called “medical abortions” can take up to 21 days and must take place early in a pregnancy. The mother takes a slow acting poison called Methotrexate, often through an injection. 72 hours later she has to insert Misoprostol pills up into the vagina. Mild to severe cramping will occur within the next dozen hours or so. Many mothers suffer nausea and headaches. After the cramping comes the bleeding. Some women have failed to contact a doctor when bleeding is excessive and it has cost them their fertility or even their lives. Many women feel severe depression after these induced miscarriages. I am sickened that you feel proud about perfecting this form of murder.
SOMG: It is not at all obvious what obligations to the conceptus the sex act confers. Many women seem to accept only the obligation to give it life-support until they find out it’s there and get to an abortion clinic. This raises the question: who is better off, a baby who gets conceived and aborted, or someone whose conception is prevented altogether? At least the conceived and aborted unborn gets to enjoy a short, intrauterine life. Wasn’t the worst threat by the Nazis to the Jews (and by O’Brian to Winston Smith in 1984) to erase them from history, to alter the very fact of their ever having existed? Why are there no demonstrators shouting “Chastity is murder”?
FATHER JOE: Oh my goodness, you are insane! Human life is present from the first moment of conception and imbued with the profound mystery that Christians call the soul. Most women still appreciate their responsibility to nurture and protect that life; the womb is no cheap motel room from which they can be evicted and murdered. Dead babies will never thank their mothers for the few weeks or months they were allowed in the womb before their destruction! Abortion is an attempt to erase human beings from history. However, Christian faith tells us that the souls of these children will survive the abortions. How will their mothers and abortionists, like you, speak to these children, knowing that you have their blood on your hands?
Your rumblings are becoming increasing incoherent. You are comparing yourself to Nazis murdering Jews and Orwell’s Big Brother erasing people who get in the way of the totalitarian order. Winston was broken you must remember, he betrayed a person he loved, all because his interrogator found that which most made him afraid. Planned Parenthood promotes a fear of pregnancy and promotes promiscuity and sterility as the ultimate ways to fit in. Language is distorted as in 1984. A baby is a fetus and an abortion is a termination. The truth is hidden behind double-speak.
Winston betrayed the woman he loved, and you would have women betray their children. You have placed to cage upon the heads of pregnant women. You are the devilish tempter, urging them to not care, to support murder:
“Yet the cage with the rats was not two metres away from him. They were enormous rats. They were at the age when a rat’s muzzle grows blunt and fierce and his fur brown instead of grey. ‘The rat,’ said O’Brien, still addressing his invisible audience, ‘although a rodent, is carnivorous. You are aware of that. You will have heard of the things that happen in the poor quarters of this town. In some streets a woman dare not leave her baby alone in the house, even for five minutes. The rats are certain to attack it. Within quite a small time they will strip it to the bones. They also attack sick or dying people. They show astonishing intelligence in knowing when a human being is helpless.’”
I have deleted some of the comments because they seemed convoluted and non-topical. SOMG wanders from Nazis to Orwell to Dr. Suess. He then hops up and down about the eight great deceptions of PP and impugns Michael who posts comments here.
SOMG: And I do not “lack morals”. My morals are just different from yours. Nor do I post comments “like a spammer”. I post them like a blogger. My goal is not to disrupt your site but to improve your (and your readers’) intelligence. So far there seems to be plenty of room for improvement.
FATHER JOE: You are an apologist for degeneracy and the murder of innocent human beings. Sorry, I call that a person with a lack of morals. And, you do post comments like a spammer. Indeed, a number of your posts have ended up in the junk bin of my spam detector. You have upset people and then you mock the people who comment here saying that in regard to brains “there seems to be plenty of room for improvement”. I must say, that is something of my sentiment in your regard, although the problem may not be a lack of neurons or IQ. I have more than a suspicion that baby killers are under a mental and spiritual cloud perpetrated by demonic influences. I have to think that only poor souls who are slaves to demonic obsession would say the kind of things you say.
SOMG: Janine, you wrote: “To [SOMG] a fetus is no more than an unwanted tumor in a woman’s body…” Wrong. I agree that fetuses are persons and abortion is homicide, remember? Janine, how do you think you should be punished for having your unborn child killed 23 years ago? Death penalty? Life in prison? How?
FATHER JOE: Yes, I am more than convinced that you are the puppet to some devil. I pity you, really I do. You can actually say with a straight face that FETUSES ARE PERSONS and then that ABORTION IS HOMICIDE. Nevertheless, you continue to advocate and to perform such egregious acts against human persons. Even Hitler denied the personhood of Jews. Most abortion supporters try to avoid or deny the matter of personhood. Janine has known a conversion of heart and mind and I do not like how you speak to her. You sought to deliberately hurt her. I would hold doctors and technicians liable for their acts, but these poor women are victimized as are their children.
And with that I hereby exorcize the demon SOMG! Begone!