It may be if you live long enough, you can see things happen that would have been unimaginable years earlier. As a boy and young man, the matter of atheism was a subject that evoked immediate sentiments of revulsion. Atheism was debated in a civil fashion by philosophers, but at the grass roots, atheists were lumped together with godless pornographers and Communists. Many scientists espoused evolution but this was not yet a topic hijacked by non-believers. Catholics and others who espoused intelligent design made the appropriate accommodations. As for the Big Bang, far from disproving creation, it seemed to reaffirm the faith and the appreciation that at the beginning, God said, LET THERE BE LIGHT. Fundamentalists may have insisted upon a biblical chronology, but the Catholic Church maintained a Vatican astronomer and regarded the Bible as our guide as to how to go to heaven, not as to how the heavens go.
Over the last year I have been surprised at the vigor of the attacks against believers from atheists. The Communist party in the United States is seeking to exploit this phenomenon. Most atheists I had known were tolerant of believers and recognized we lived within a culture where faith of some sort was important for people and where tolerance should be exhibited. The so-called Blasphemy Challenge seemed fueled, not by a scientific and/or philosophical atheism, but largely by anger and as a knee-jerk reaction to scandals, hypocrisy and fundamentalism from the various denominations of Christianity. Since the Scriptures spoke about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as the unpardonable sin; young people especially were dared to post a video of such blasphemy. In truth, many of these efforts involved a confused appreciation of religion, since the only true unforgivable sin is a genuine hatred of God that results in suicide. Can people hate what they say they do not believe in? Jesus probably referenced those who discounted the workings of the Holy Spirit in his miracles, healings and the forgiveness of sins. They blasphemed the works of God as having a demonic source. The next stage in the assaults was the so-called Eucharist Challenge where religious terrorists stole the consecrated hosts for desecration. They faulted Catholics for getting upset and for attempts to protect the Eucharist. Indeed, emails and comments sent to me would even deny Catholics the right to believe in the Eucharist. We were mocked as stupid and delusional. While we would claim that everyone has a right to their opinion, these new more militant atheists would shut us down and repress religion. But wait a minute, is that really new? China, Korea, Cuba, and a number of other nations are still operated by the Communist party. Russia looks like it might be racing back toward such a totalitarian regime.
Here is a poster from an anti-Catholic campaign of the Communist Party in the United States:
Here at home the American Communists are supportive of the new atheists and deliberately seeking converts.
- They encouraged families to see the film, THE GOLDEN COMPASS which mocks the faith and treats God as the great enemy.
- They attacked Pope Benedict as a NAZI and the Church’s stand against homosexuality as a witch-hunt.
- They ridicule the Church’s stand for the sanctity of human life as simply making women into egg incubators.
- They promote Evolution and Creationism, not as part of a serious discussion, but because they vehemently hate religion.
They would persecute and subjugate the faith if they get the chance. Young atheists should not fall prey to their mindset; rather, they should relate to people of faith with a shared sense of human decency and respect of persons. We can disagree but we should not seek to ignite the emotions behind emotions and rhetoric that fuel violence and give rise to the mob. Communism is not only about atheism but about violence to fulfill an ends. It leads to dictatorships and repression. Basic human rights given by nature are stripped away. Communist atheism makes itself the arbiter of right and wrong, based upon the needs of the many and the state but would sacrifice the individual and the weak.
Communist atheism and similar forms of militant atheism as we have experienced recently here in the West represents a real threat to the salvation of souls and the freedoms we hold dear.
Would someone kindly explain the atheist definition of ‘morality’ as opposed to traditional ‘morality?’
I understand that atheists subscribes to relativism, but I’m not clear what their morals are (nor excited to find out, but I must know).
Well, I think that nearly any system of thought, if allowed to be put into practice without opposition, is likely to end in atrocities. Communism is not even remotely unique in that.
I have read some Marx and have a great appreciation for his intellect. Engels’ book on the origin of the family is a pretty good read.
I’ve known some actual Communists of the orthodox, CPUSA variety. You’d be surprised: not all of them were atheists. Some of them were religious, even. Really nice people. The ones I’ve known would never approve of stealing the Eucharist.
The RCP — the group that cooked up that leaflet that you’ve shown us — is this tiny, ultra-annoying fringe Maoist outfit. I don’t know who’s more tiresome & immature — them, or the Trots. Please don’t take them seriously: if you do, you’ll be the only person who does, which could get lonely.
Father Joe, I know that the so-called New Atheists tend to be very evangelistic. But in promoting their worldview, aren’t they just doing what a lot of believers already do? Is mutual tolerance incompatible with proselytization? I don’t have a firm opinion on whether it is or isn’t, and I’m not much of proselytizer anyway.
Regardless of offensive stunts like Myers’, I don’t see the atheist revival as including any attempt to restrict the free practice of religion. The “New Atheism” still operates out of the old, respectable liberal framework that venerates the rights of the individual and the First Amendment above pretty much anything else. Don’t you think that framework is still strong?
The “new atheists” make me think of what Christ said: “It is better for that man that a millstone be tied around his neck and he be cast into the sea than he cause one of these little ones to lose his faith.”
The blatant intolerance by atheists for Christians, especially Catholics, exploits people’s vulnerability and leads them, not only away from the Church, but away from faith altogether.
It is sad. It is sick. It is evil. It is frightening.
Lady Godless says:
“…….I don’t see the atheist revival as including any attempt to restrict the free practice of religion. The “New Atheism” still operates out of the old, respectable liberal framework that venerates the rights of the individual and the First Amendment above pretty much anything else. Don’t you think that framework is still strong?”
Actually, I think that it is the right of free speech that the ‘new atheism’ is trying to restrict – at least when it being exercised by the Church.
The internet have been a boon to the ‘new atheism’ and one can find all too many anti-Catholic websites and videos on the net.
All our concepts have their origin in Judeo Christianty.
Family, Marriage, society, community all have their origin in Judeo Christianity.
Athiest wish to sweep away traditional morality. the replacement is barbarianism or new barbarianism.
I pray that God has mercy on these misguided fools, far worse the ones behind the scenes who manipulate the youth and elders today to jettison traditionality for new-paganism and barbarism.
Oh how terrible it will be for them on the day when Jesus returns as Lord and God of all. Then despite themselves they will be forced to bow and kneel and proclaim that HE IS GOD.
Dan, I’m not sure what you mean when you say, “actually, I think that it is the right of free speech that the ‘new atheism’ is trying to restrict – at least when it being exercised by the Church.”
Restricting the right to free speech?
How? When? I don’t know what you’re referring to here.
You go on to say, “the internet have been a boon to the ‘new atheism’ and one can find all too many anti-Catholic websites and videos on the net.”
Most of the anti-Catholic material I’ve seen is put out by other Christians.
Case in point: the many, many works of Jack T. Chick.
I’ve got a bunch of Chick tracts around here someplace — you know those things street preachers hand out? A lot of atheists love that stuff, NOT because Chick has a problem with Catholicism (note: he doesn’t like atheism, either), but because his dreadful artwork is always good for a laugh.
It’s the same old garbage. People wanting to decide for themselves what is good and evil. Killing god allows just that.
Let’s be honest here, it almost always comes down to sexual desires. The irony is that they want people of faith to believe that atheists are actually the thinkers of society.
It’s sort of sad. They “think” with half their brain tied behind their backs. http://www.clashofthespoons.com/christianity-teaches-science/
“I understand that atheists subscribes to relativism, but I’m not clear what their morals are (nor excited to find out, but I must know).”
Funny- I am an absolutist. However for morality, I think that these guys explain it better.
DAYLIGHTATHEISM
STARDESTROYER
The differance is that Ebonmuse is more hand holding and Mike… does not tolerate fools kindly.
“Well, I think that nearly any system of thought, if allowed to be put into practice without opposition, is likely to end in atrocities. Communism is not even remotely unique in that.”
Er, no. Marxism is completely detached from reality.
Communism? Not as much. As the Societs have shown, their ARE benefits to state control. Of course, having everything state run is a bad idea- you need a mix. Were the sweet spot is drives economists nuts.
“The “new atheists” make me think of what Christ said: “It is better for that man that a millstone be tied around his neck and he be cast into the sea than he cause one of these little ones to lose his faith.”
The blatant intolerance by atheists for Christians, especially Catholics, exploits people’s vulnerability and leads them, not only away from the Church, but away from faith altogether.
It is sad. It is sick. It is evil. It is frightening.”
Okay… what the hell is wrong with you? Last I checked, no atheists were urging wholesale genocide against believers- did an atheist run over your puppy or something? Cause if there is one thing that the 20th century has taught us, urging genocide is BAD!
As for intolerance towards Christains- please. When is the last time a Christian Churhc has been shot up (discounting the Unitarians)?
As for leaving faith… that IS the point. It is like leaving racism. Don’t worry- you’ll get it eventually.
“Actually, I think that it is the right of free speech that the ‘new atheism’ is trying to restrict – at least when it being exercised by the Church. ”
By preventing them from doing what? You assert without any justification.
“Family, Marriage, society, community all have their origin in Judeo Christianity.”
Wow. I guess I am going to have to tell all those people who weren’t Christians that their families, marriage, societies AND communities don’t count. What is next- Christians invented science (sorry- Ionians got there first), human rights? Sorry. The Persians got there first!
Pat Man lets his imagination run wild: “let’s be honest here, it [atheism] almost always comes down to sexual desires.”
Aaaaaand you know this — how?
Smiley007 said:
“All our concepts have their origin in Judeo Christianty.
Family, Marriage, society, community all have their origin in Judeo Christianity.”
No, Smiley. That’s not true. Family, marriage, society, and community are all far older than Christianity, and older than Judaism as well. All of those things exist wherever the human species exists, regardless of religion, though their forms and the rules made to govern them vary with the culture.
For the matter of that, doesn’t your own church teach the existence of natural law and natural marriage, etc?
I live in India in a state called Kerala, ruled by the left(communist ideology) party…The last 2 yrs of their rule has seen open provocation of all things Catholic ie. education system, belief in Christ and Pope etc…Now it has got so bad that the government has put a case against a convent as to how the process of discernment 2 nunhood can be started so early in life…followed by the party leader openly shamelessly attacking the Pope…The Vatican did issue a statement regarding this…this week numerous Christian churches were being attached by both left and hindu fundamentalist groups across India.
To sum up what i understand from the Left rule in my state is:
1. The left party has only one aim, ie. to expand its power,its ideology,size in all matters of a country through ANY MEANS regardless of the consequence.
2. They are all bigots who are good in accusing but poor in action ie. like biblical high priests
3. The ONLY enemy it really faces(especially here) is the catholic Church & they go (as they are always doing now) to any lengths 2 SHAMELESSLY persecute the church so that its feeble influence in society is completely extinguished !
Yes, Amit. Those eeeeevil Kerala Commies do want a law to ensure that girls younger than 18 years of age cannot be forced into a convent. Oh, the intolerance! When will the persecution end?
Look: sometimes the civil state has to step up and protect its citizens. Whether you like it or not.
Lady Godless,
You are wrong about the new atheism working to still respect the right of the individual. People like Richard Dawkin, an atheist from Oxford University, spew out venom about Religion. Saying we are abusing our children by spreading the virus of religion to them. Richard Dawkins is a man with a mission – the eradication of religion, and their total replacement with science and reason void of faith. He is one of the main leaders of new atheism and he has no respect for other points of view and wants them eradicated.
It is different then the atheists of old who said, I don’t believe, try to prove it to me, and were actually open to listening, or at least respecting the choice of religion. People like Richard Dawkin are different. There is no respect for the individual belief if it differs from his. He wants religion eradicated. That does not sound like mutual tolerance he is spreading.
Father Joe, I would not joke about any such thing!
I don’t object at all to Amit’s comment re the Hindutva fanatics who’ve been attacking Muslims, Christians, and other non-Hindus. Sectarian violence is a real and terrible problem. I know that.
But I do take exception to his ploy of labelling a secular government’s attempt to protect minors as religious persecution. Because it simply is not!
Dear Lady Godless,
You are perfectly right in stating that a secular government has every right in protecting its citizens & more importantly minors.
But the problem starts when it goes beyond its secular responsibility and starts attacking an institution having certain rules & regulations practised and accepted for centuries, and whose members are people who WANT TO BE THERE out of their own SELF acceptance of its structure and way of life.
Now in such a scenario what right does a secular government have, when such an institution causes impediments 2 NO ONE ???
The Church is actually the one infusing genuine secular(also moral) values in the nation & its society today…
Susan wrote: “It is different then the atheists of old who said, I don’t believe, try to prove it to me, and were actually open to listening, or at least respecting the choice of religion. People like Richard Dawkin are different. There is no respect for the individual belief if it differs from his. He wants religion eradicated. That does not sound like mutual tolerance he is spreading.”
Susan, when Jehovah’s Witnesses show up on my doorstep, are they there to tolerate my atheism? Have they come to express their respect for my worldview?
No. They’re there because they think I’m wrong and they want me to abandon my views and adopt theirs. And it’s not just them: except for such rare exceptions as hardcore predestinarian Baptists, nearly all Christian groups proselytize. Christians have historically made it their mission to eradicate other forms of belief — and all forms of unbelief — as much as possible.
I would have thought that Dawkins — with his missionary zeal — would be precisely the kind of atheist that Christians could understand and relate to (rather than someone like me). Because his practice of atheism mirrors their own religion’s aggressive evangelism and sense of high purpose.
When you complain that “it is different then the atheists of old who said, I don’t believe, try to prove it to me, and were actually open to listening, or at least respecting the choice of religion,” you seem to be envisioning a world in which it’s proper for Christians to do all the talking, while atheists accept their role as the passive targets of proselytization.
But why should it be that way? Why is it bad for Dawkins et al to take the same attitude toward you that Christians take toward nonChristians?
After all, he is not violating your rights. He is merely writing polemics against your views, and encouraging you to change the way you think. He cannot actually ~make~ you do anything.
Amit wrote: “But the problem starts when it goes beyond its secular responsibility and starts attacking an institution having certain rules & regulations practised and accepted for centuries, and whose members are people who WANT TO BE THERE out of their own SELF acceptance of its structure and way of life.”
Sorry, but no. Minors really aren’t in a position to make such decisions. Any institution that presses them into this role is exploiting their naivete and their subject status. I’m sure you don’t really want that. It’s entirely proper for the state to step in and protect the girls.
It takes more of an effort to be an atheist than it does to be a believer of God.
Proving that God doesn’t exist is an impossible task.
The first pain of hell is the eternal loss of God and for atheists especially, it begins here and now.
Boy, are they in for a shock!