A priest friend who is a lot braver than I am moderated a forum on clergy sexual abuse. While I have discussed the issue, I would never in a million years want to moderate a forum on it. What could one expect from it but a great deal of anger and maybe igniting fuses to bombs that need not go off? I would not count myself enough of an expert to deal credibly with the concerns and questions that might arise. It could become an occasion for calumny and gossip. I would defer to someone like Fr. Stephen Rossetti, although I do have personal reservations about some of the things that are said to occur at St. Luke’s Institute and similar facilities charged with the care of problem priests. I would suspect that the archdiocese would also want to be consulted before any such enterprise was undertaken. Further, I am not sure I could appropriately contain my own rage and disgust toward the perpetrators or to those churchmen who protected them and enabled their mischief.
Putting ourselves into the place of ecclesiastical authority is easier said than done. I would not have wanted their jobs. I am sure a great many scenarios ran through their heads: the question of salvaging a priest, the scandal of revelation, and the financial costs in liability, etc. Hopefully, among the many concerns was also the central matter about victims, potential victims and their families. However, it seems that this critical part of the analysis was often lost in the mix. People were paid off to be silent while others were placed in danger. Money does not heal lives and souls. Silence sometimes just allows evil to hide and later to reemerge. Here I might come to a parting of ways with some of the so-called experts. I do not believe that child abuse is simply an illness or psychiatric disorder of the priest. It is more than a stunted psycho-sexual development. It is a serious moral evil. It is a sin of the highest order and a priest, above all men, should know this. Suicide is a grievous wrong, but I would count it better for a man to throw himself in front of a speeding truck than to molest a child. I know this would usher angry responses, but even our Lord said that it would be better for a man to have a millstone tied around his neck and that he be thrown into the sea before he would lead one of the little ones astray. Priests are not supposed to hurt children and damage the faith of their charges! It is a contradiction to their very identity and the heart of the Gospel. That is why the scandal has been so terrible. Even non-Catholics took us for our word and priests were viewed by millions as the living embodiments of Christ. Now we are ranked among the greatest hypocrites. The damage from even one Judas priest is inestimable; however, when the scandals hit us, there was charge after charge after charge. It became a nightmare that did not seem to end. Making it worse, certain bishops dismissed their own responsibility, shifting it to the lower clergy or to the laity with the imposed penitential days. Even now the bishops are thinking about an annual Sexual Abuse Awareness Sunday. It is insane; there is no other word for it. People wanted to hear their high shepherds explain what happened and yes, even to say they were sorry. Instead, words were carefully crafted by lawyers and admissions measured by the calculations of prospective litigation.
Critics claim that generations of rewarding paper-pushers and chancery men with promotions added to the dilemma at hand; the Church was deathly afraid of scandal and those who were the best at problem-solving and pacifying situations got the long pointed hats. Many of them had never been pastors of a parish and they hated any type of confrontation. They were passive men. They protected the boys in the club. Any decent priest in the trenches could have told them that any man who molested a child should NEVER be trusted in a parish with children again! It did not take pontifical degrees or honors to figure this out and yet those in charge sometimes made matters worse. Even now, despite most cases of priestly child abuse being deceptively catalogued as pedophilia; the truth according to many critics is that the rascals were overwhelmingly pederasts and homosexuals. This seems authenticated by looking at the details in public cases. But the experts and certain high churchmen have defined the problem differently. Why are we afraid to offend sodomites?
My priest friend thankfully had his forum with no ill effects. He is a better man than I am. As I said, I would not have the nerve. I wonder though, given that it was 2004, if the attendance was minus those who had since left Church practice over the scandals? He served at a parish where I was once an associate to a pastor who was convicted as a pedophile. The cases were thirty years old and the parishioners and I had trouble believing it. But he pled guilty and went to prison. It marked me and all who knew him in a permanent way. If men we counted as saints could do such terrible things, who could be trusted? The Church is holy because Christ is holy. Yes, she is a divine institution. But she is also a human one, and composed of sinners. The trouble is that the priest signifies Christ. Jesus can work through a bad priest, but more often than not, his work is distorted by priestly sinfulness. The face of Christ in the community of faith is possibly blurred and disfigured.
My priest friend gave a good answer about why a priest could not absolutely be stripped of his priesthood. The sacramental character is permanent. Even Judas remains a priest, albeit probably in hell. Men who abuse children, indeed, I would add those who commit homosexual acts with adults, should not be allowed to continue in ministry. Many of these older men are warehoused in Church gulags (sorry, treatment centers), some are in prison, and others are laicized. The misnomer is that laicization strips away priesthood; all it really does it reduces a man to the lay state in terms of his activity. He cannot offer the sacraments or dress as a cleric. The canon law is a bit peculiar about this because laicization now requires the determination that the man should never have been ordained. Piety once contended that a man could trust that he was called when the bishop uttered his name at ordination. Thus, he was to brush aside any lingering doubts. Given the scandals, this way of thinking is shelved; evidently mistakes are sometimes made. The argumentation here is somewhat similar to that used in annulments; however, while some marriages are not valid, even the ordinations of poor candidates remain valid. Why? Otherwise, if a man’s priesthood was judged null-and-void, then all the Masses he offered, the absolutions extended, etc. would also be invalid. Goodness, think of all the stipends that would require new Masses or return to the donors!
My priest friend wrote, “The fact is that when someone does something really bad, we are not satisfied unless there is retributive justice.” He hit it on the head, although I think the big bucks hurt the wrong people— those in the pews, not those at the top of the pyramid. Look at all the viable churches closed in Boston! Across the country, people have lost their parishes to pay for the misdeeds of priests. Despite our historical fear of trustees, I think the corporate sole approach may have cost us too dearly.
My friend continued: “It is not enough to take steps to ensure that the offense is not repeated—though obviously that needs to be done. When someone commits a terrible crime, the harmony of the world is disturbed, and only a fitting punishment can restore order.” Okay, but what can make proper restitution for stolen innocence and violated trust?
He mentioned jail time, but what is appropriate… 3 months, 11 months, 20 plus years? We have priests who have abused young people and the amount of incarceration varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? What about proof? Unless the man confesses, it is one person’s word against another. Many of the cases are decades old. Often the priests are long dead and cannot defend themselves. What about innocent priests who have their vocations destroyed by false charges? So-called victims have recanted, sometimes long after a man has been suspended and removed from ministry. The news reports the charges but rarely the recantation. Cardinal priest Avery Dulles thinks the current policy of the bishops throws such men to the dogs. Where is justice?
My priest friend wrote that the priest should face punishment from the Church: “…a punishment delivered over and above the boom that the state lowers. Such a punishment is necessary in order to restore the order of justice within the human institution of the Church.”
Laicization is considered the greatest censure a priest can face, next to formal excommunication. But my priest friend wrote: “If I were a bishop or religious superior who judged after careful investigation that one of my priests had abused a minor, I hope and pray that I would be man enough to call the priest into my office and beat him up right then and there, before I turned him over to the police.” Gulp!
Oh boy, what can I say? We might sympathize with such an attitude, but the priest would probably charge the bishop or his pugnacious assistant with assault and battery, right? Bishops do not like doing jail time. I suppose he could send him to a Third World assignment, feigning concern to get him out of the country. The clandestine operation, managed by an underling to allow deniability, would re-channel social justice funds in a secretive fashion to the local militia hit squad. They would take care of the rascally priest, making him hurt plenty in the process. One might even be able to re-image him as a martyr falsely accused. Of course, all those concerned would probably go to hell for doing such a thing. Such retributive justice sometimes comes awfully close to revenge. It might also make for a cheap dramatic film, but is far from real life.
I understand the sentiment, but the Church is not authorized to issue corporal punishment. I hope my friend’s remarks were somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But again, how much is this to teach the villain a lesson, and how much to appease our own anger and disappointment? Even when it comes to divine justice, as much as we might damn him, the priest abuser might repent and merit God’s mercy. People really get upset about this, that they might have to share heaven with perverts and child molesters! Ah, we really do not like the good thief story all that much, at least not when we are not imagining ourselves as the thief.
It may be that flogging had its place, but such would be hard to argue in the United States today. Where it is still practiced—and not by the Church—there is the matter of physical health. Many of the priest abusers are elderly and have heart conditions. All silliness aside, I would suggest that the best action would be one directed toward the mind and heart—not simply to the body. These men should no longer deny the truth about themselves or what they did. They should be compelled to reflect upon how they hurt children. Every waking moment should be filled with tears and remorse. Although there should be monetary compensation, the answer is not for victims to sue dioceses and to hurt more innocent people in the pews. Rather, these men should live austere lives of prayer and mortification. Any profit derived from their work ought to be given to those they hurt or to those agencies or persons who care for abused children. They should not simply be laicized and released into the public where they might continue as a threat to others. No matter whether in a prison or a monastery, they should resolve that their public lives are over. We cannot trust them. They should know that they cannot trust themselves. The Liturgy of the Hours and the General Intercessions in the daily Eucharist offered for them could include the lists of names of those they harmed. They would pray daily for the healing of the children and the souls of those young people who are now adults. A life of reparation is not too much to ask of men who robbed children of their innocence, of their faith and of their prospect for happy and productive lives.

I would have to agree with you. If I were a priest, I wouldn’t want to touch this issue with a ten foot pole either. I think that the laity are also bombarded with accusations that our clergymen are all pedophiles. We find ourselves assuming a defensive posture on this all of the time. I had a lengthy discussion with my friend Fr. Chris about this shortly after the priest scandal broke out in 2001-2002.
FACT: There are more pedophiles who aren’t priests.
He also told me that less than 2% of Catholic priests were actually guilty of those crimes. What about the other 98% who were permanently stigmatized by these false accusations? Most of the accusations came from non-Catholic “Christians” with nothing better to do then to discredit the Catholic church at any cost. They must have overlooked the passage in scripture when the Lord saved the adulteress from being stoned to death, even though she was guilty. The entire ordeal proves that God uses broken vessels to carry water. He permitted this evil in order to bring about a greater good from it.
We have to emphasize the amount of good that God has brought out of all of this. What the scandal did, in essence, was make the church stronger and more widely present in a world filled with evil and sin. It also made the words of Jesus come to life when He told Peter that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His church. He told Peter that because He knew that the gates of hell were going to try and to continue to try until He returns. History has proven time and time again that the church has stood the acid test of time like no other institution on earth. Governments have folded. Countries have collapsed, but the church will always remain because it is a divine institution.
The church on earth is God’s living voice, regardless of any scandals. Plenty of good comes from every scandal because God is infinite in love and mercy. The victims of these scandals are also called by God to forgive.
God also raises the greatest saints in times of crisis. In this case, it was St. Padre Pio on June 16, 2002. Prior to June 16, 2002, not many people were aware of this great and holy priest and mystic.
His life, prayers and sufferings merited so much for so many. He has become the model priest for so many lack luster and complacent priests in this present age, including the fallen priests of the scandal of 2001-2002.
Think of the fallen priests who truly repented of their sins. Scripture tells us that there is more joy in Heaven over one repentant sinner than ninety nine virtuous who have no need to repent.
As far as those guilty, the church was right to dismiss them in order to protect her children from further harm. They should never be placed in a postion of trust ever again.
They have to face the justice of God, but for the contrite, God’s mercy is above God’s justice.
Hey! you know what???? since you haven´t read it:
GOD SAID, quote, “IT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE MAN TO BE ALONE!” (gen 2:18)…….
celibacy anyone???? ok, so God said but “the church” says “stay celibate, it´s good”.
Don´t come now with all the blah, blah, blah…. we all know that the origin of celibacy was due to all the wealth of the priests being past on to their families as inheritance… not to “the church” (Pope Pelagius I made all the preists agree they could not make their offspring inheritants)…Ouch!
Plus: Paul wrotte “Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; FORBIDING TO MARRY”(1tim 4:3)…. you´ll say “we CHOOSE not to get married”…CHOOSE?:
The Code of Canon Law states: “Clerics are obliged to observe perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the kingdom of heaven and therefore are bound to celibacy…”
HAHAHA! you guys are fried! Christ is Back and you won´t be able to hide no more…hahahahah!.
In 1022 Pope Benedict VIII banned marriages and mistresses for priests…. aren´t you proud of your “first pope” Peter…well, Jesus healed his mother in law… was married…
*First, the pope should be obliged to face the criminal charges he’s acused from in Texas…is he scared he WILL be found guilty?
That would set the right example don´t you think? because if he were not guilty (which, he is) then he would be wanting for the truth to come out….all of you “decent” preists should pass a letter saying you want for your “pope” to face the U.S law. (if you really feel that child molestors and/or the ones covering them up are NOT representing you all)
*Second, think: if a big company, say, Microsoft had more than 100,000 cases of child molestation (u.s only)… wouldn´t you think the company would be sut down forever???? well, those are your numbers (not counting, of course, those who were so victimized that don´t denounce)
http://www.bishopaccountability.org/ has info on it.
*Third: your “secret of confession” makes you all complices… how is that even allowed in the U.S.!
[...] Retrospective on Clergy Child Abuse [...]
“A life of reparation is not too much to ask of men who robbed children of their innocence, of their faith and of their prospect for happy and productive lives.” -I think you hit it with this statement.
The abuse scandal that rocked the church is still something I have a hard time grasping or trying to comprehend. I believe the effects of it are something the church will be dealing with for years to come. However, I am given hope when I reflect upon my own generation. The media seems to think the Catholic Church is dead to twenty something American Catholics- I beg to differ. For many of my peers and myself are living far more orthodox lives than our parents did. We have a sincere desire fo Truth and to live and love as Christ did – whether it be through the vocation of marriage or religious life. I have hope in my own generation, that as we continue to grow and take on our roles in the Church – as Priest, Sisters, Husbands, Wives, Dads, and Moms that we will slowly see the church continue to heal. For if you look at the history of our Church, this is not the first time it has been “shook to the core,” but it is still standing today, just as Christ said it would.
“You are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
Thank you for this priestly perspective, Father.
Sadly, about 5 or 6 priests that I knew as a child have since been accused of sexual abuse (most from just one parish). Perhaps this is inappropriate on my part, but I can’t help but wonder how many of those men (and their victims, as well) remain in the Church. If laicized, how many of these priests have simply walked away into the “homosexual lifestyle” with hardly a backward glance?
I guess that’s a little harsh. One priest I knew who was convicted and did jail time began writing letters to the editor of the local paper in favor of gay rights and such.
My former bil left the church because he was abused by a priest (who later committed suicide after being confronted by his father.)
So many souls have been lost over this!!!!
It just makes me so sad.
SC: I love the way you have redefined pedophilia.
FATHER JOE: Okay, I see the sarcasm already. But how could any words of mine appease you anyway? I am a priest of the Catholic Church instituted by Christ. The Scriptures and the natural law make plainly clear what is right and wrong. Look at how you define yourself: “I’m a black woman, a feminist, a lesbian and older than 40.” The “lesbian” and the “feminist” labels when stuck together make for a most volatile mix.
SC: We have priests (adult men) sexually molesting children. That is called pedophilia.
FATHER JOE: No, we mostly have a few rogue priests, with past homosexual involvement, who have wrongly engaged in sexual activities with teenaged boys. That is called pederasty and homosexuality. There are a lesser number of incidents of true pedophilia with prepubescent children. A still smaller number of these incidents is with females. The vast majority is the violation of males. It is wrong and sinful any way you cut it. But, I will not protect homosexuals at the cost of our children!
SC: Yet, you conveniently blamed it on the homosexuals. Isn’t that typical.
FATHER JOE: The blame goes where it belongs.
SC: The church still refuses to admit what they have done and to make amends.
FATHER JOE: You must be blind. We are burdened with self-imposed Child Protection policies and have spent millions in restitution. Did your experience of the churches in the south poison your mind to religion and truth? You say on your blog that you were “burned” by the south. Most people I know are better off for growing up in the so-called bible-belt.
SC: Instead, the charge is changed and blamed and blamed on the easiest target. For the record, I don’t know any gay men who want to have sex with children.
FATHER JOE: I doubt they would tell you. That was part of the problem.
SC: They usually want to have sex/love with other adult men.
FATHER JOE: Usually?
SC: But, I do know loads of priests who have been enthusiastically assaulting small children.
FATHER JOE: I doubt you know many if any, at least personally. Otherwise, you would be breaking the law for failure to contact the authorities. You are just a lesbian mad about my remarks and looking to make trouble.
SC: For a moment, I thought the church was going to do the right thing. I thought they would admit their crimes before God and people they have harmed. I thought they were capable of attempting to make amends. Thanks for letting me know it’s not possible.
FATHER JOE: Don’t play games, you never gave the Church the benefit of a doubt. As long as the Church opposed your sordid lifestyle, you would be her enemy. That is the long and short of it. Individual priests committed terrible sins and crimes, but in doing so they did not represent the aims of the Church. Their actions made them enemies of the Church to which they were a part. Homosexual acts and crimes with children should be sufficient to get a man removed from ministry. We want no part of them. You can add the sodomites to your Christmas list, even though you would prefer they wait until the boys turn 18 years of age before they molest them. If you read my article closely, you would have noted that my observation is not shared by many churchmen who inadvertantly pander to homosexuals like yourself. I am not the Church, but thank you for the compliment. Having enemies like you is a confirmation that I am right about all this.
SC: So many souls have been lost because of the church’s cover-up of rampant sexual abuse of small children – by powerful pedophiles protected by the church. How dare you say it is because they were gay! If they were gay – they could have easily found an adult to have sex with – not a child.
FATHER JOE:
So many souls are lost because people think that same sex relations are okay. They are condemned by Sacred Scripture and by the natural law. Pedophiles are pathetic, as are the pederasts. They have no power in the Church. They spend their lives in prison or in Church operated gulags, locked away for sins that no one except for God will ever grant forgiveness. The abusers themselves often admit that they are gay. They have had homosexual experiences earlier in life. The older boys represented easy opportunities for their perversion. No small number of them committed their heinous acts while under the influence of alcohol.
I never said that all homosexuals were child abusers. I never said that all child abuse was of a homosexual nature, although it represents the vast majority of cases. No man who has hurt a child should be allowed to continue in ministry. Those wounded should receive counsel and pastoral healing. The guilty should be punished. That is where I stand.
SOY: Well, we obviously see a blind desire to cover up the crimes, the way you defend Ratzinger is typical behaviory of your church… I´ve seen MANY documentaries on the Crimen Solicitationis (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/5389684.stm) and have 2 friends who were abused by priests, one of them here in Boston. The behaviory of the priests and bishops towards her was “oh, well, those things are not to be regarded seriously”
FATHER JOE:
I am not surprised that you sought out two victims in Boston. Both you and your would-be messiah and self-appointed anti-Christ are pathetic in your attacks upon the true Church. If anyone is confused reading this, the bigot making comments is a disciple of a cult. He follows a cult-leader by the name of Dr José Luis de Jesús Miranda. His followers mark their boddies with the sign of the beast, 666. They hate the Pope and are certainly upset that their master’s prophecy of the papal collapse after his U.S. visit did not materialize.
Crimen Sollicitationis, which has since been revised, did not detail what should be done civilly about cases of clergy abuse of minors. Rather, it targeted actions to be taken within the context of the Church, herself. More has been read into it than is appropriate. The Church defines or interprets Church documents and legislation, not secular courts. It was to be followed in connection with the appropriate canon laws.
The letter was sent out in 1962 by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, Secretary of the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, to the Church’s bishops. It established procedures in dealing with clerics accused of having used the sacrament of Penance to make sexual advances to penitents. It required a penitent to denounce a rogue confessor within a month’s time. Because of the scandal element, the canonical trial required a strict secrecy. Here is where some critics make too much of the document, which covered all sorts of sinful misconduct, not just with minors. An oath of secrecy was to be taken by all involved with the process. Certainly, the document was never intended to circumvent any civil charges or the responsibility to respond to secular courts and investigations of crimes. The only touchy point would be in regard to the seal of Confession, itself. Because the priest is under the seal, he might not be able to defend himself from an accuser unless he is released by the accuser. However, then others in the canonical process might find themselves under the seal. Whenever the sacrament of Penance was involved, the situation and the canonical process would become more complex.
WIKIPEDIA STATES: “The document dealt exclusively with the procedure to be followed in connection with a denunciation to the ecclesiastical authority of a priest guilty of solicitation in Confession or of similar acts. It imposed secrecy about the conduct of the ecclesiastical trial, not allowing, for instance, statements made during the trial by witnesses or by the accused to be published. But it did not in any way impose silence on those who were victims of the priest’s conduct or who had learned of it in ways unconnected with the ecclesiastical trial.”
“These matters are confidential only to the procedures within the Church, but do not preclude in any way for these matters to be brought to civil authorities for proper legal adjudication. The Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People of June, 2002, approved by the Vatican, requires that credible allegations of sexual abuse of children be reported to legal authorities” (April 2005 statement by Joseph Fiorenza, then Archbishop of Galveston-Houston).
Canon 904. In accordance with the apostolic constitutions, in particular the constitution Sacramentum Poenitentiae of Benedict XIV of 1 June 1741, a penitent must within one month denounce to the local Ordinary or the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office a priest guilty of the crime of solicitation in confession; and a confessor must, under a grave obligation of conscience, inform a penitent of this duty.
Canon 2368 §1. Anyone who has committed the crime of solicitation dealt with in canon 904 is to be suspended from celebrating Mass and hearing sacramental confessions and, if the gravity of the crime calls for it, he is to be declared unfit for hearing them; he is to be deprived of all benefices and ranks, of the right to vote or be voted for, and is to be declared unfit for all of them, and in more serious cases he is to be reduced to the lay state.
SOY: If you were honest, you would seek for the truth to come out, if there´s a LEGAL suit against Ratzinger (even if, to you, it´s no biggie) you SHOULD want for it to be resolved. Jesus Himself went before the authorities… and we all know it was an unfair allegation! (not in Ratzinger´s case since we all know he was the enforcer of the Crimen Solicitationis for 20 years).
FATHER JOE: The truth has come out. The legal action against the Holy Father is frivolous and intended to create sensationalism. Nothing will come of it. There is nothing wrong with the document, although it can be misinterpreted by anti-Catholics and those who love to blow up scandal. Secrecy sometimes protects the victim, and not simply the culprit. Our media often destroys lives but jumping the gun or by giving out too many details. The Church, the police and the courts should be involved with the misconduct of priests when it is truly criminal. However, I do not see why we have to turn the lives of hurting people into soap opera for voyeurs.
SOY: I know you will defend your tradition (which is not a very good thing to be proud of… Peter was a hypocrit (gal2:7-11), indulgences, inquisition, crimen Solicitationis etc etc etc). YOU are choosing to love more your tradition over the truth: “But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?”
FATHER JOE: You think that the man you follow is a new incarnation of Jesus Christ. You are simply following a conman who knows he has a good thing going. Look at his record! As for myself, I am proud of the current Pope and am glad that he is a successor of St. Peter, whom you also attack. Indulgences are an element of penance and the distribution of graces. The inquisition office was primarily about insuring the fidelity of faith. Yes, history has tragic incidents of abuse and these in turn were often blown out of proportion beyond historical facts. You would break with the traditions of a living Church to follow a cult leader who plays at being Jesus and God. I will stay where I am and I will pray that you will one day wake up from your delusion.
SOY: “Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.”
FATHER JOE: Yours is the house of thieves where your make-believe messiah makes himself rich while his poor slaves tatoo themselves with the mark of 666. The Pope is the poor man who lives in one of the most beautiful churches in the world. Your master is not about simplicity and charity, but fraud and greed.
SOY: Jesus WILL NOT allow for your religion to be standing up any further, HE is a God of justice.
FATHER JOE: My Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father and comes to us in his saving Word and sacrament. The so-called “Jesus” you are talking about is Dr José Luis de Jesús Miranda, and he is only a man playing at God. My God can save me, yours cannot even save himself!
I’m sick and tired of hearing people suggest that priests get married in order to prevent them from sinning. That is the most foolish thing that I’ve ever heard. I didn’t realize that marriage had that capacity.
They also quote specific scripture passages in order to validate their ambiguous opinions.
The church is God’s living voice.
We Catholics are soo lucky to have Magisterial teaching, moral absolutes, objective truth AND the sacraments. WHAT A FEAST!!!!!
If you’ve never had it, you’ll never miss it.
No one ever leaves hungry UNLESS they don’t eat. Trusting in trust is a great grace!
PADDY WALSH: The last gasps of a dying church belch forth from its dusty, rotting corpse. Your religion disgusts me.
FATHER JOE: The feelings are mutual. Everything about you disgusts me. You are such a disgrace, and an Irish young man from Dublin, too… the saints are truly weeping! My Church espouses decency and charity and goodness. You and your girlfriend are lost in a world of Satanic heavy metal music, bi-sexual perversion and bondage, and a fascination with the occult. You cannot see the truth about the Catholic Church because you must view the world through the prism of your own filth and self mutilation. I will pray for you. That is all I can do.
SOY: If you were obedient and YOU DON´T believe Jesus is back then you all are evidently DESOBEDIENT: “Therefore JUDGE NOTHING before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God”(2cor 4:5)
FATHER JOE: Your masquerade Jesus is not Jesus of Nazareth or the Son of God. You mark yourself with 666 and follow one of the latest in a long line of anti-Christs. Sorry, but I will follow the genuine God-Man Jesus Christ who is proclaimed by the Catholic Church. Worry not about me, but about his judgment upon you for this foolishness. The Lord will come, indeed he already speaks to us in his living Word and in his Eucharistic presence. We await his second coming and the consummation of the world. You do not know the REAL Jesus. You worship a mere man instead. As for the Bible quote, you take it out of context. St. Paul himself would judge you and your companions as false. “I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I give thanks (to God) that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say you were baptized in my name. I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else” (1 Corinthians 1:4-16).
SOY: hahaha.. so you are giving judgment and don´t believe He´s back…. Desobedient system of yours. JOSE LUIS DE JESUS MIRANDA, the second coming of Christ.
FATHER JOE: Only the most ignorant fools believe this con-man. In 2007 your Jose Miranda admitted that he was the anti-Christ (I will grant he is one of them) and he denies sin while decrying the Catholic Church as evil. This is all very sick! The last laugh will be on you. Abandon this cult while you still have time!
SC: I’m surprised and shocked that your responses have been so nasty. I’ve noticed you’ve changed my name, deleted my link and my comment. I was informed by a wordpress moderator that changing a person’s comment is unethical.
FATHER JOE: It is my blog and I will not post links to sites that are contrary to Catholic faith or which possess vulgarity. If you do not like it, then please refrain from making comments. This is a personal blog. I do not have to give you equal time. You can write what you want on your own blog which promotes the lesbian and gay agenda. There I do not have to read it. I gave you the courtesy of not deleting your comments. You should count yourself fortunate.
SC: That would make your actions to my comment unethical. I have never known a priest to be so rude, routinely calls people names and is basically mean spirited.
FATHER JOE: What names did I call you? Please, you protest too much.
SC: Are you supposed to be the representative of Christ and weren’t you taught to speak to people from a place of love? I must say, if this is how the church allows you to behave, I see a problem.
FATHER JOE: There would be more of a problem if a priest promoted sexual perversion and sin. I will leave that to you. I mean that… respectfully.
SC: I’m sure you will change my name on this comment as you did before.
FATHER JOE: I abbreviated your name in making comments. I also removed your blog link, although I am sure people could do a search and find it. Your label “steadycat” has neither been removed from this post nor the previous one. Again, I have been generous. Most priests I know would have deleted your comments entirely.
SC: Perhaps you will call me names and belittle me again as you did before as well.
FATHER JOE: I said strong things but are they not the truth? What do you want me to say, that what you are about is okay in the eyes of God? I would be lying! I said you were “blind” but other than that what are these names I supposedly called you? You, yourself, call yourself both a feminist and a lesbian on your blog. Do you regard your own self-definition as pejorative?
SC: I hope that the Lord Jesus Christ can touch your hardened soul to make you into a more loving person. Perhaps you can still earn to lead with kindness instead of a ravenous mean spirit. I’ll pray for you. In case you didn’t know it, the Lord hears my prayers just as well as he does yours. I believe that our GOD will not be pleased – and you will have to make amends on the day of reckoning. Thanks for showing me the spirit of the present day Catholic church.
FATHER JOE: The spirit of the Church sometimes requires a tough love and a truth that cuts like a sword. I will not give you false compassion. I will pray for you, and I appreciate your prayers. But I will also ask the Lord to bring you to either a perpetual chastity and/or to a healing of your sexual disorientation. I am sorry if you are easily wounded and I will even apologize for any unnecessary roughness. But I stand by my views about the tragedy of abuse and about the “problem” of homosexuality. I wish no harm or discrimination upon anyone. But I cannot compromise on the gravity of an issue which I believe constitutes mortal sin.
Fr. Joe,
All of the rats are coming out of the wood work now, which shouldn’t surprise us.
I wouldn’t waste anymore responses on them. You could be doing better things besides wasting your valued thoughts on them.
“Don’t cast pearls before swine.”
They already have the truth and ignore it.
The truth always hurts the devil.
What makes them rats is their use of vulgarity. An intelligent person has the capacity to make their point without being disrespectful and vulgar.
You are right to tell them to get lost.
Enough is enough.
DEMDYKE: God what a scumbag! It sadly doesn’t surprise me and the current incumbent of the papal seat will be applauding his poisonous hands! Bless me father for it is you that sins, I see that you are blinkered by bigotry, racism, sexism and homophobia; but on the day of judgement I would much rather be standing in Steadycat’s shoes than yours.
FATHER JOE: I am embarassed, not by your denotation of political party, but by the sexual reference in your personal label. Why would you call yourself by a pejorative word? Your presumption is wrong and sinful. Lizzie, you can attack me and the Pope, but I have only challenged sinful behavior. I firmly believe it is possible to hate the sin but to love the sinner. I am not sexist; I believe in equal opportunity for women but I do not support either Catholic priestesses or abortion. Indeed, I think we must defend the rights of the unborn woman, too. I am not a racist, indeed I am the pastor of a parish of minorities and count African Americans among my nieces and nephews. I am not a bigot unless you would count someone who believes in the commandments and who tries to avoid sin as such. I do not hate gays and my cousin runs a Catholic organization to help them be chaste and celibate– thus in good standing with God and men. You and you friend object to my views and given what I read on your message board, would seek to silence me. What does that say about you and the disrespect for human freedom and speech?
Here are some important quotes from the universal catechism:
CCC 2357. Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
CCC 2358. The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively dirordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
CCC 2359. Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
CCC 2396. Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
Reading your reply to some of these comments remind me of my former “pastor”. Hopefully, you don’t ’see’ how you’re coming across. The title of the post I’m referring to is..Heartache At The Hands of The “Church”.
I’ve been in ministry (Ordained) for 30 years. My career was primarily as a Humaniatarian Aid Relief Coordinator and Educator for First Responders. This allowed me entrance into numerous nations across four continents. You seem to think the Catholic church is “the” church. The way you’ve phrased things in your replies indicates you believe the Catholic church is “the ” church. Well, as one that was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school, then later questioning certain things I was “told” was truth…I decided as a young adult to study Catholic Church History.
WOW! There were huge differences between the Bible and Catholic church doctrine. First of all, that Peter was the first pope. There is NO reference to Peter ever even being in Rome…not to mention that the Catholic faith didn’t get it’s start until about 300 AD under Constantine.
Then there’s the problem of Peter’s wife…as Pope’s are not to marry, Yet, the Bible clearly says Jesus healed Peter’s mother in-law. Then there’s the admonition to NOT call anyone upon the earth: Father. Of course, this does not refer to your natural father.
What about the priesthood itself? The priesthood was institued to bring the sacrifice to “cover over the sin of the people”…when Christ (Our High Priest) came He took AWAY the sin of the people. We don’t need a mediator between us and the Lord.
Even Mary (the Mother of Jesus) was in the Upper Room…and refered to Her Son as Lord. She was mightily used of God…yet, even she recognized her need of a savior. The tribe of Levi was where the priests were from. Those of us that belong to the Lord are called “Kings and Priests”
There is absolutely no truth to the teaching of “transubstantiation”. Regarding communion, Jesus said “do this in rememberance of Me”. Not that somehow, magically someone would pray it would become the actual body and blood of Christ.
We are to “speak the truth in love”. Whether you realize it or not, reading most of your replies, they appear anything but “speaking the truth in love”. We are to be all things to all men, that we may win some. Our message needs to be tempered to our listeners (first year seminary teaching).
When we go to the Lord in repentance, we are assured of His forgiveness. The “Word” declares He removes our sin from us as far as the east is from the west….His forgiveness is complete…the idea of “doing penance” is making the shed Blood of Chirst of “none’effect”. To teach otherwise is “trampling under the shed Blood of Christ”.
Our example is what draws others to Christ. I have seen this in operation for over three decades. Living outside the USA for so long, I’ve had to work with many “religions”…and I don’t mean other denominations of Christianity….but other “Religions”. Not one time was there ever a conflict…as our goals were the same…to bring aid to the suffering. However, the questions that would come my way by many…were about my “Religion”. When I would state I was a Christian….then serious quetions would be asked. There were many people (leaders) that I’ve led to the Lord. It was through example and not arm twisting, or condeming.
There are 101 other things I would mention, but am on a time constraint. We don’t need to study error to know the truth, but when we know the truth…it reveals error. Michelle
Steadycat posted a link to this site from a message board where all sorts of personal attacks were made against me. While there were many misrepresentations about what I wrote here, I suspect the main reason for the anger was my categorization of homosexuality as a disorientation and of homosexual acts as sinful or wrong. This does NOT mean that I hate gays or that I would discriminate against them. As for the child abuse problem, the statistics themselves show that in the U.S. a vast number of cases are in fact pederasty, not true pedophilia. Both are terrible sins and criminal, but it is an important distinction to be made. Dr. Fitzgibbons in PA is on the record that most of these pederast cases involved rogue priests who also had a homosexual history.
Here below are some of the negative things said ABOUT ME on the message board linked to my Blog. Note, that I have made no personal slurs about anyone. If I did, I would immediately delete it and apologize. Instead of civil debate and an appreciation for free speech, this is what I got in return:
>mean spirited and vile
>a scumbag!
>you are blinkered by bigotry, racism, sexism and homophobia
>can you imagine dedicating your entire life to serving something that doesnt actually exist?!
>You cant reason with stupidity
>He is an ignorant bigot of the highest order who will always try to silence any voice which does not concur with his own twisted views.
>the wilful misinterpretation, nay misrepresentation of facts in the name of some unproven deity is beyond reason.
>I grew up as a Roman Catholic and was taught by vile and intolerant priests and nuns.
>not a talented person who can draw attention to himself in any other way than to be a bigot.
>continue spilling out his hateful bile while distorting the facts
>Jeez, what a right-wing, intolerant, judgemental, homophobic, misogynistic pr*ck.
>Good on you SC for taking this A.Hole
>He’s just a man. A bit up himself because he thinks he has God on his side.
[...] On another front, Father Joe courageously posted on the abuse scandal this week and is valiantly slaying combox trolls as I write this. While posting on this elephant-in-the-room topic is generally safe for the laity — not so much for the clergy. Why don’t you go over to his blog and give him some support: RETROSPECTIVE ON CLERGY CHILD ABUSE by Father Joe [...]