FATHER JOE:
Healthy heterosexuals, real men in the priesthood, are attracted to women. They make a promise of celibate love and by discipline, prayer and grace, they live out this life of loving service. They might fall in love… heck, they might fall in love with a number of nice women in their lifetimes, but they remain steadfast. Older and wiser men recognize the signs and make distance, even becoming gruff or mean to women they particularly like. This is often misinterpreted. But it has to be done. If a priest falls deeply in love with a woman in a romantic way, he must abandon her friendship and any affiliation with her. He must not play games that will lead the both of them into disaster. He must say goodbye. Often he will not and should not tell the woman why they cannot remain associates or “friends”. He must love her enough to let her go. There is something of sacrifice and the cross about this. It is as it must be. We need men who have a single-hearted love for God and devotion to the Church. As new Christs, they take the Church as their spouse. Once the promise is made, they must not think again that they are free like other men. Fantasies must be guarded and brushed aside. No time for envying other men or feeling sorry for oneself can be allowed. They have surrendered their intimacy and their sexuality to God– case closed.
HELEN:
Father Joe, I have question about the following: “Often he will not and should not tell the woman why they cannot remain associates or ‘friends’.”
Why should a priest not be honest with the woman? If he pushes her aside with no explanation, she may think she has done something wrong (sinned) to hurt or offend him, when she has not. Perhaps, she did not lead him on. We (adults, single, celibate, married, whatever) are beyond the age of innocence, yet we do not always “do” anything that makes another desire us sexually. The priest has taken a lifetime vow of celibacy. Has he also promised not to be so aloof that may hurt another person, when a simple explanation could clear up the problem, as far as the woman going her way, so as not to be a “stumbling block” to him?
FATHER JOE:
“Why should a priest not be honest with the woman?”
Priests are often shy men who live in their heads. They may feel a great many things that they do not express. While priests may express fatherly love or the more general love of a shepherd to his flock, it would not do for a priest to confess “romantic” love to a woman. I base this upon the experiences of many priests who thought they had to be honest before making distance between themselves and a woman they cared “too much” about. More so than not, it can touch reciprocal emotions in the woman and matters can quickly escalate. It is best that she never know how he really felt. Unfortunately, they can also begin to lie to themselves, that they can keep this love under control.
“If he pushes her aside with no explanation, she may think she has done something wrong (sinned) to hurt or offend him, when she has not.”
Yes, she might feel hurt. This sometimes happens, but it cannot be helped. It is for the sake of both their souls that he must keep silent. He can assure her that she has done nothing wrong, and maybe tell her that the demands of ministry require more of his time. This is true; his priesthood requires that he spend less time with her. He can also explain in a vague manner, that he wants to return to the spirit of detachment that he was taught in seminary so as to better focus on his spousal love to the Church and to his prayer life as a priest. But he should not tell her, “I love you.” What he feels for her may not even be reciprocal; it does not matter. He might never get over her and will have to take this burning love with him to the grave– so be it. He must allow her to find joy in the company and embrace of another man, no matter how much he sacrifices personally. Promises are made to be kept.
“Perhaps, she did not lead him on?”
“We (adults, single, celibate, married, whatever) are beyond the age of innocence, yet we do not always ‘do’ anything that makes another desire us sexually.”
She did not have to, at least not intentionally. He might simply have fallen in love with the person she was. Priests are especially vulnerable or sensitive to nice girls who practice and know their faith: going to Mass, saying their prayers, practicing modesty and chastity, etc. They are everything a religious man of strong values would hope to find. He sees in her a true helpmate and a wonderful potential mother for a family. Many people these days discourage priests and tear them down. Such a lady builds him up and tells him that he is important and needed. He will quickly make friends and before long, loving her will be as easy as breathing. Her joy will become more important to him than his regular duties. Trouble is brewing!
We are sexual beings. Priests like all men are constantly dealing with sexual feelings and thoughts. His need for intimacy when turned toward such a girl will not subtract the sexual elements. If the relationship becomes increasing exclusive, then he must make the hard decisions about what to do next. Hopefully, the priest did nothing to lead the woman on.
Young priests in particular can be very innocent. This is also a component that quickly resonates with the innocence of a woman who cherishes her virginity and values. They see in each other something of themselves, and the potentiality for a best friend. But can a priest have a woman as his best friend? I have trouble in seeing it. Fr. Groeschel used to recommend that priests make friends with women whom they find particularly unattractive. This way they develop that side of their personalities that must interact with females, but by lessening any possible dangers. That is why some priests reserve their closer female relationships to matronly or elderly women. Older priests might also have some friendships with young women for whom they have fatherly feelings. However, caution must be used because while young men like young women, so do old men.
“The priest has taken a lifetime vow of celibacy. Has he also promised not to be so aloof that may hurt another person, when a simple explanation could clear up the problem, as far as the woman going her way, so as not to be a ’stumbling block’ to him?”
YES, a priest has taken a lifetime vow or promise of celibacy.
But, to be honest, he did not make promises about the rest. Some priests are aloof and they remain that way to survive. Others are better at relationships and limits. I am all for simple explanations, but in many of these situations the explanations are really not so simple and can lead to a host of additional problems. Rarely is it a case of the woman going her way, unless she sees the problem and nobly makes a move before the priest does to preserve his vocation. What usually happens is that a priest, consulting his spiritual director and/or confessor, will seek a new assignment. It is often too hard for the priest to remain in a parish and regularly see a woman with whom he wants to share time and intimacy. He goes on with his life and she goes on with hers. He does not go out of his way to be mean or nasty. He will no doubt bless her and keep her in prayer. But he might also never see or talk with her again. And if he does, then he must bear his pain of loss in silence.
HELEN:
Thank you for your explanation. Obviously, priests are fully human. They are as sexually alive and responsible for their own behavior as anyone else. It just seems that in almost every instance a priest could say, “I’m sorry, but I can’t see you anymore. You didn’t do anything wrong and have not sinned against God. I am asking you not to question me further. If you care for me, as a human being, please don’t continue to ask.” It seems kind, doesn’t seem to violate his vows, and would let a young woman (perhaps as shy as he) know she had not led a priest on.
FATHER JOE:
Helen, certainly the priest should do all he can to help a person he loves to move on with her life. But the priest may be so caught up in his own emotions that he does not have the right words.
You suggest that he could say the following: “I’m sorry, but I can’t see you anymore. You didn’t do anything wrong and have not sinned against God. I am asking you not to question me further. If you care for me, as a human being, please don’t continue to ask.”
I think it is good to tell her that she has done nothing wrong. About that I agree, if it is indeed the case. But I also believe that he has to remove himself from the picture. If she really cares about him, no explanation will suffice. Someone is going to get hurt, not matter what.
Further, in some cases the emotions are not entirely shared. The girl might only have “friendship” feelings while the priest feels more than he should. He has to be careful to say or do nothing that would re-direct or amplify her feelings. (It could also be the other way around. I have known priests pursued by women.)
Romantic feelings are not very rational. The problem may be more the priest than the girl. If he says something like this and she comes crying into his arms, begging, “What is wrong, tell me?” Well, who knows?
Thank you for the contribution. I hope priests struggling in such situations will take seriously this post and the thoughtful words that you offer as a model for them. You are a smart lady, Helen. God bless!
MARY:
There are so many factors involved in these situations; it is hard to reduce these situations to linear scales of right and wrong. There are multiple factors acting on the principles. Some examples:
(1) Some women consciously or unconsciously actively seek priests out for relationships and marriage. I know of one woman who is obsessed with marrying a priest and even vehemently argues for the Church to allow priests to marry. She never sees her obsession as taking a “father” away from many, many, children. This woman may have felt that she needed a father for her children, but she probably didn’t ever consider that in giving her children a father she will be depriving many, many others of a one-of-a-kind spiritual father.
(2) People become confused I think also when they entrust someone with the deepest, most intimate parts of their spiritual life. This is often a person’s most secret and intimate self. It’s not surprising that a person who has never been able to share this part of their life with anyone else will reason that their ability to share it must necessarily mean that that they and their priest/counselor share an intimacy beyond any other and is evidence that they should be together for life.
(3) Our society is over sexed and places a high premium on “sexual identities.” The Christian life demands that people refrain from inappropriate relationships but the world is so at odds with Catholic understanding of sexuality and the human person. Everyone is bombarded constantly with messages to be sexy and demonstrate one’s sexual prowess. It’s about the equivalent of alcoholics being asked to live in a bar 24 hours a day. The temptations are so great. I think we need to realize that just as alcoholics need AA, so to do those who are called to chastity according to their state in life (married, celibate consecrated, celibate singles, etc.) need the same kind of support that AA provides its members. I think the Church should organize support groups for chastity for both lay people and clergy.
(4) If this relationship really went on for awhile, it underscores the value of having busy body old ladies as receptionists who just have a way of “knowing” who should have a lot or a little access to father.
SANDY:
Fr. Joe, today I find all too many priests insensitive to the feelings of those they “shepherd”. How sad it is for me to hear that a priest would purposely choose to be mean to a woman whom he has feelings for. It seems cruel given the sensitive nature of woman. Some women look to a priest as a reflection of Christ. A priest treating her coldly may cause her to question her love of the Church and this may cause her to leave the Catholic Church. I know this because I have left the Church due to so many uncaring priests.
FATHER JOE:
You miss the point Sandy; the object or ideal is for the priest to pull away before the woman develops strong feelings and an attachment to him. Many today see love only in a selfish way, like those priests who break their promises. If a priest really loves a woman he will want what the best for her, even if he must pay a high price by forfeiting her friendship. Love is not always about kissing, holding hands, embracing, or jumping into bed. Sometimes REAL LOVE means saying goodbye. (Remember, priests and their women who attempt marriage commit mortal sin and cannot be restored to good grace unless they separate or unless the priest is laicized and given permission to marry. I have known such couples, cut off from the sacraments, knowing that every act of romantic affection and sexual union is neither sanctioned by the Church nor approved by God. How can a good priest live with such a decision, knowing that he may have damned the person he says he holds most dear?)

Fr. Joe, I am so glad I found your website and your explanation of the many emotions and reasoning from the standpoint of a priest. If I may tell you my own story and how overwhelming and complicated things can get…
I fell in love with my parish priest and kept my feelings hidden for a long time, prayed to God that he would take them from me as I knew it was pointless and fruitless, but the heart won out over the head time and time again. I told myself my feelings could not be sinful, yet I still suffered great pain. My heart ached and longed for his presence. He was to me the perfect man, possessing all the qualities I had ever wanted, problem was he wore a Roman Collar. His kindness, friendliness, charm and wit overwhelmed my very soul. I knew I was in trouble. We worked in several ministries together and he counseled me a few times, but nothing inappropriate ever happened. At times I caught him gazing at me, and I could not get over feeling that perhaps he had also felt attracted. (Perhaps it was my own wishful thinking?) Not being a beauty queen myself, I felt he truly appreciated my kindness and love of the Catholic faith. At our last counseling session (there were only 3 in two years) I told him how much I admired him and how much I appreciated his kindness, help and compassion and also how sad I and several others would be should he be transferred. I am sure he sensed I had feelings.
Very shortly thereafter— guess what— he was transferred— and very very far away. Was it coincidence? I was absolutely devastated and revealed my feelings to him in a letter— big mistake. I wanted the burden off my heart, but instead I just put it on him. I apologized later to him that I blurted out my feelings, but of course he never responded. I knew I should have run away from such intense feelings (yes after awhile the devil jumped in and the sexual thoughts started); I had horrible guilt over having such thoughts of a holy priest. He never once led me on or did anything inappropriate, but after awhile of being extremely friendly he suddenly backed off which did indeed hurt me very much. I don’t know if I scared him away, made him extremely uncomfortable (well duhhhh) but he was never the same towards me again— very cold and short with words. That marvelous smile of his never came my way again.
He never acknowledged my letter, my feelings, any emails or birthday or holiday wishes. He simply dropped all communication. I was devastated. When my life took a horrible downward turn and I was faced with unemployment, family problems (I am divorced), etc., I asked for his prayers but he never answered me. This killed me.
I will never know if he ever felt any tender feelings for me— and yes I did want just a tiny piece of his heart— selfish, yes I admit. I was terribly lonesome and had gone through a lot of rejection and heartache in my life.
But now I can see where you are coming from, and I do thank you for your enlightening comments (I figured it out myself pretty much after a long time, but your blog sealed it for me).
I miss him terribly. He is gone seven months now. I pray every day that he remains steadfast and strong in his commitments as a priest. Yes, I still love him and suppose I always will. It is the most painful thing I have ever gone through and I feel like he died. I will never see his sweet face and smile again. I ask God for the grace to go on and for the virtue of detachment, and I offer up my sadness as a sacrifice to God because I know it is His will. I know I have angered our Lord by loving one of his priests and wanting his love in return. I ask for forgiveness every day and for the strength to go on. Thank you for reading my story and I hope it is a lesson to all who read it.
(P.S. NO, we women aren’t all sneaky evil and a succubus!) God bless.
Janine, there is nothing wrong about our emotions. Where we might get into trouble is where our emotions could possibly lead us. Those who fall in love with married people have similar struggles. The challenge is for us to find our way while respecting the promises and commitments of others. Take consolation from the fact that the priest was a good friend, and even if you no longer hear from him, know that all good priests pray for those with whom they have worked and for whom they love as the shepherds of the Church. The human heart is not entirely under our control. Passions can be even more chaotic and require both discipline and grace to master. I do not know you, except for this post, but know that I will keep you very much in my prayers. You guarded his priesthood. That was a wonderful sign of your respect for his office and concern for him as a person. This has proven your high character. I do not see God angry, but rather pleased. Let him go and continue on with your life. I hope God heals the many hurts you have suffered. It is not easy, but things do get better. I would ask you to pray for him and all priests, that they will remain faithful and not despair. Know that you can always write me on the Blog or with an email. Peace!
Fr. Joe,
Thank you for your very kind and understanding words of support. I do pray for him and other priests daily. I am in awe of the sacrificial love shown by priests. I take comfort in somehow knowing deep inside that he does pray for me, and I appreciate your prayers also.
I saw in this man the light of Christ, a true and holy priest and a man of integrity. He did the right thing and I have the utmost respect for that. God WILL heal me over time and perhaps even bless me with a wonderful husband to share my golden years with.
May God continue to bless you in your ministry to others and keep you strong and steadfast in your commitments to serve Him and his people in purity and obedience.
Janine
I am blessed to have many priest friends. One of them was counseling a distressed married woman who began sending him elaborate gifts follwed by love letters. My friend, being the faithful and wise priest that he is, put an immediate end to his interactions with this woman. RIGHT!!!!!
He stopped taking her calls and began refusing her advances and gifts. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out. If there are any women out there reading this who are in “love” with a priest, I have some words of wisdom for you: “GET OVER IT!” If you’re single then find a decent God-loving single and devout Catholic man without baggage to build your life with. Father so and so isn’t another Davy Jones waiting to take Marcia to the senior prom.
We all share the same internal components which make up our souls. An intellect for truth, and a will in order to love. These components can be disrupted if we don’t learn to control our disordered passions. I think that it all boils down to SELF-CONTROL. No one is exempt from it. People who don’t exercise SELF-CONTROL usually end up alone, in a hospital, in jail, and also in mortal sin. It stands to reason. I recall the scripture passage of St. Peter walking on the water along side of Jesus. That passage tells us that Peter began to sink because he took his eyes off the Lord. There’s a great lesson in that passage which God intended for everyone. We can’t walk without any light and Jesus is that light.
Michael
Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. Gee I never gave it a thought, nor had it ever once entered my mind that this was actually a sinful situation and that I had to just plain GET OVER IT. And yes all those single God-fearing men without baggage are ripe for the taking and knocking down my door, I just can’t decide which one to pick!
Ok sarcasm aside…you have obviously hit a nerve here!
Michael..you are implying that all women who develop feelings for priests are either acting like silly school girls in junior high school (I did not appreciate your smart *** comment about Marcia either) or are the evil Eve, a succubus. Some of us are just plain regular gals, who went to church and were faithful and obedient Catholics, until they inexplicity found themselves in a never-ending battle with their heart and head.
I have condemned myself enough without such vilification from someone who has never been in such an unfortunate and very painful situation. I never expected this man to leave the priesthood, nor did I stalk him or throw myself at him. I am hardly some sort of temptation, I am a woman over 50 years old. I do not appreciate someone invalidating or making light of what was truly heartfelt affection and caring….I admired and respected this man and still do.
I cried every night and begged God for him to please take such feelings away….since God has not answered my prayers for healing and peace regarding this, I have to humbly accept it and bear this cross patiently for His sake.
It is hard for me to even walk into that church at times and try to feel like I am even worthy to be there. I even quit all ministries because I felt so unworthy..still guilty of the unforgiveable sin of loving one of God’s priests.
We are all sinners and in need of prayer and understanding. I will pray for you that you may never have to undergo such a conflict of the heart and soul.
Janine,
What makes you think that my remarks were individually directed to you? I think that your own words indicate that you need a one on one consultation with Fr. Benedict Groeschel.
You need to let go by stop beating yourself up.
Let me tell you something: Any woman that goes after a priest needs to have her head examined. It’s no different than chasing after a married man. Some women can’t get a man and resort to Father because he gives them an ounce of attention. The same goes for trouble married women. They confuse love with lust. In the meantime, many lives get ruined. If they really loved the man, then they will let go of any attraction or emotion so that he can do what God called him to do. Admit that it’s true. Not letting go is very selfish and very evil. Look at it this way too: How can God send a single Catholic male to a single Catholic woman if she’s pining over a priest? He can’t. I met my wife when I was 36 years old and it was worth every second that I waited.
Regarding these “feelings” that you asked God to remove from your mind. God will never do such a thing. It’s up to you to control your own passions and then God will bless you with growth, strength of character, and possibly a good mate. You have to trust in His mercy and love by leaving the rest behind. I’ll remember you in my prayers.
Michael
Michael,
Perhaps your first post was not directed personally to me but the second one was.
It is not for you to presume what God can and cannot do or will not do for each of us. How do you know that I never prayed long and hard for a mate long before this priest ever even came to my parish? Telling me I am selfish, evil and need to get my head examined is not something I would expect from another Christian, nor can I ever imagine our Lord dealing with any of us so harshly.
I have repeatedly acknowledged and admitted to my sin, and did not ask that my feelings be justified or sanctioned. I posted my experience to show what it is like from the standpoint of a woman on the other side, to make a point that these things indeed can get out of control. I am sorry if I do not live up to your standards. The arrogance, self-righteousness and yes even conceit of some of the postings on all of these blogs is unbelievable to me.
I hope God continues to bless you in your marriage and that you never encounter any difficulties along the way or become selfish and evil also.
Case closed and blog closed.
I have known sweet and innocent women who became too close to priests, not because they wanted to steal a vocation, but because they shared so much of the same faith and values. If priests are real men of faith and duty and charity, they are naturally going to be attractive to fine Christian ladies. Tension or problems may not always be anyone’s fault, because we are still dealing with a fallen nature and the mysterious providence of God.
Life is very complex. I believe that promises are made to be kept. However, I never said there was a foolproof way to live out our lives and vocations unscathed. There are things we can do to help ourselves, but no guarantees against broken hearts and tears.
Fr. Joe,
Thanks for your valued insights and response. Michael
Fr. Joe,
Yes thank you very much —you have a way of gently putting things that incorporates all the complex and conflicting situations that unfortunately do arise, however unintentional they are on the parts of those involved.
God bless you Father–and you too Michael! :)
Janine
Janine,
Not to make your head swell, but I think that you’re a beautiful daughter of faith regardless of any emotion that you may feel. God wants you for Himself. Remember that God is a jealous God who commands love. He has a great plan for you, which you’re fulfilling daily. It’s a woman’s duty to keep society moral. In this day and age, that’s a tremendous task. All we need to do is to tune into the news and see how disrespected life, morality, and sex are presented to us. There’s hardly any sanctity left. It is women of faith, such as you, that help keep things moving along the right path. If you look at the life of any female saint, you’ll see how she stood up for virtue by example and by word. Thanks for your prayers. My wife and I need them desperately as we strive to take care of her bedridden mother residing with us.
God bless you. Michael
Michael,
Thank you for your lovely words of encouragement. I do apologize for being so sensitive before, obviously I have a lot of healing to do yet and I know with time and God’s help that will happen.
I do have a strong faith and disappointed myself most of all. I came to realize my own brokenness and as Father put it, my fallen nature.
May our Lord give you and your wife strength and perseverance as you show your sacrificial love by caring for your mother in law. God will richly bless you both for it. I will keep you, your wife, and her mother in my prayers.
Funny how our Lord brings people together isn’t it? Praise His holy name.
Janine
Janine,
And I’m sorry too if I came across as being crass. St. Ignatius taught that God speaks to us primarily through our emotions, but we know that not every emotion that we have is truthful . The devil can have negative influence on us IF we allow it. God also gave us an intellect to substantiate the truth from that which is not true. The problem that we face today is moral relativism. I like to call it “made up truth.” Society is in denial of moral absolutes and objective truth. This is why the country’s in the condition that it’s in and it angers me because things could be so much better. My father-in law and mother-in law were born in the early 20’s. That generation went to mass every Sunday. They had less than what we have and were a lot better off than we are. It’s true. I have to say it like it is: Our generation is sooo spoiled. We have the best and the latest of everything when all we really need is Jesus. Nothing is fit to take His place. God bless you again and thank you so much for the prayers.
Michael,
I agree with you 100 percent. Life continues to be more and more complex, it would be great to go back to simpler times, people were more obedient then. And obedience is what God demands of us first, because everthing else just falls into place if we would just be obedient children. Our Lord said, “If you love me, you will obey my commandments.”
Our natural inclination to disobey and thus sin leads us into all sorts of trouble. Hence, the very reason behind this one particular blog!
We are so blessed to be Catholic and to have Holy Mother Church herself, our Pope and the Magisterium to lead us all to the real truth as God wants us to understand. They are guided by the Holy Spirit, and how can we lose when we have them on our side?
BY the way, it’s refreshing to chat with another wonderful soul who loves his faith so much.
Take care and God bless,
Janine
Janine–we’ve all got crosses. Flee from your attraction; while it may be real to you, it’s offensive on a number of levels (lust in the heart, cooperating with or facilitating the breaking of one’s vows before God)–whether you’re pursuing a married man or a priest. Spend some time with “The Imitation of Christ” and take the focus off yourself.
This situation reminds me of this:
Does anyone remember the ending to the 1984 movie “Witness” with Harrison Ford and Kelly McGillis? I was fortunate to visit that Amish farm in Lancaster County Pa.
Anyway, the point of me bringing this up is that John Book (Harrison Ford) and Rachel Lapp…..the widow (Kelly McGillis) developed “feelings” for each other throughout the course of their time together. At the end of the movie as they depart from one another, John book looks back to Rachel. Rachel turns her head away as if to say: ” I know that we can’t be together and you need to go back to your world where you belong.” Book begins to tearfully fill up then turns his eyes away. They give each other a final look then a final smile, then Book departs quietly as Rachel stares at him. They never exchanged any words, but their actions and looks speak volumes.
This scene epitomizes how much we need to turn away from the things in life that aren’t right for us, even though our bodies and passions tell us otherwise. To pursue it would make it a very selfish act. As difficult as it is, we must turn away in order to please the wise and all knowing God. He knows us better than we know ourselves and He knows how to bring about our happiness better than we do.
The moral of the story:
God can’t fill us up with real joy and happiness if we’re too busy trying to satisfy ourselves by our own inordinate desires. That’s an extremely dangerous thing to do because we can miss out on God’s best for us. It can also lead to the ruination of our souls and others.
You play with fire and you get burned.
Fr. Joe,
This is from Janine, the woman who posted a few weeks back about my own situation with a priest. I promised myself I would not post about it again, yet here I am once again with diarrhea of the keyboard. By the way, I find your entire website very informative and interesting, and follow your blogs regularly now. You have a new fan!
[Those in situations like mine] all have to put ourselves at the mercy of our Lord, and ask for his forgiveness and strength. I know in my own situation, one in which nothing physical ever happened, only my heartstrings were pulled to the max…snapping completely apart. I was the only one who suffered through this mess, not the priest I knew. I wanted to share the other side, but sometimes I regret that I did so.
There is black and white and right and wrong and I am painfully aware of this. It is very easy to tell others to” flee” from certain feelings or emotions, attractions, etc. Not so easy when you walk that painful path yourself though. Not even the holiest among us should ever become so complacent and self-assured to believe they could be exempt from such a sin. I truly pray for all priests,women and married people that they never have to face such a temptation.
Kempis’ “The Imitation of Christ” is a wonderful book and is on my nightstand now and was throughout the entire time I went through this “cross”. It reinforced my brokeness and sinful ideation. During this time of confusion for me, I read it quite often as well as novenas, Eucharistic adoration, etc. You name it, I tried it! Anything to get strong and get my head on straight. The devil is the Father of Lies and will do his very best to trick us and the human heart itself can often betray us. I did my best to overcome it and still have residual struggles with this. I want to make it clear that I never tried to encourage him to break his vows or tempt him in any way. (I am over 50 and overweight, it is laughable to me to think I could tempt any man, let alone a holy priest of Jesus Christ.) My only mistake was allowing my emotions to overwhelm me to the point where I could no longer hold them in, and foolishly told him how I felt when I heard he was leaving. His leaving caused me great distress, and I still grieve his absence. There one day, gone the next.
Sometimes I regret that I was brave enough to share my experience, because I am inviting condemnation from others..and trust me I have done that enough to myself. I do get defensive though when reading posts (not just yours, but many other Catholic blogs) that allude to such feelings as being not true ones, instead they are “disordered”. It is hard to hear that one’s feelings don’t matter, are of no importance, or are simply sinful. There is an old saying, the “truth” always hurts.
I don’t know Fr. Joe….. I though that by sharing I could have finally gotten some closure, but instead I feel worse. I am sure there are some so called faithful and loving Catholics out there reading this right now who are thinking to themselves, “too bad, you deserve to feel lousy about this and it is our duty to point out your sinful behavior”.
Save the physical attraction—which I could not help and could only pray to control—there were feelings of true admiration, affection and yes, respect. One might think I am talking through my *** to use the word ‘respect” and “physical attraction” in the same breath, but nevertheless it’s the truth AND THEY DID COEXIST.
I am sure many priests go through this themselves and as you pointed out previously, had to deal with and try to overcome them. They can fall in love and care for a woman, they simply are not allowed to act on those feelings. When you care you care, you just do!!! It is difficult, painful, but it is the way it must be and life goes on.
Priests pray 1000 times a day and by their ordination are given much greater graces to overcome such difficulties as this than the average lay person. I can’t take a sabbatical from life and spend hours a day in front of the Blessed Sacrament trying to make some sense of such a conundrum. I had to cry into my pillow at night and curse my own emotions. Still, I trust our heavenly Father knows best, and I pray he will show me the path of true peace, happiness and fulfillment.
I always did and always will continue to say this priest’s name in my prayers daily, and will always think of him fondly and with respect. And for that I will not apologize. He was one beautiful and amazing soul and I am grateful to God for allowing me to walk through this world at the same time as him.
Father Joe, Michael, and all of you here —God bless and have a beautifu and most blessed Lenten and Easter Season.
Janine,
You’re a beautiful daughter of faith and God really loves you….you don’t realize how much! He does! What else matters?
Mother Angelica always said that the hardest work that we do is on ourselves. As I’ve stated in post #61, I’m Italian and Italians are known for being emotional, outspoken, and also very stubborn. Mother Angelica always labeled herself as being a “Testa Dura” which means a hard head in Italian. I’m in the same boat with Mother.
I’m sure that Fr. Joe will agree when I say that there’s no event in this life that cannot be directly related to Jesus in the cross. All things point to that one sacrifice. Faith, hope, love, prayer, the sacraments, trials, triumphs, heartaches, joy, betrayal, death, life……you name it. Life on earth is full of mini deaths and mini resurrections.
With that it mind and knowing that you’ve participated in much of the above mentioned, then suffice it to say that one day you will share in the glory of God with the all the saints. God only asks us for a sincere effort and nothing more.
Bishop Sheen always taught what the church teaches: “First Good Friday, THEN Easter Sunday” Today should be a reminder to us that our bodies are going to die, but our souls will live on thanks to what Jesus did on Calvary.
We’re partakers of a divine nature because Christ dwells within us, in spite of our impending physical death and our own wretchedness. That’s a tremendous truth!!!!
Are we aware of who we are in Him? We’re saints on our way to glory, but not everyone realizes that they’re a saint. If they only knew that they were saints, then they would begin to act and live like the saints that God created them to be. It boils down to identity crisis. We have to know and understand that we are sons and daughters of infinite love. We are.
God bless you. Michael
Fr. Joe and Michael,
I thank you both for your very kind, beautiful and uplifting words of encouragement.
I particularly likedd “life is full of mini deaths and mini resurrections.” May I use that saying as a signature on my emails Michael? That is one truth that needs to be shared.
God bless,
Janine
Janine,
You can quote me on anything I’ve written.
I’ve learned to that the best spiritual director is day to day life experience. It takes time for the Holy Spirit to work in a person’s soul. The Holy Spirit is the water. Earth is like a nursery. We’re the plants and God is the divine gardener. We don’t know when He’ll decide to pluck us from this Earth to transplant us into His heavenly garden. He’s waiting for us to mature in wisdom, age, and grace.
One day at a time!
God bless you.
Your brother Michael
Janine,
I’ve always liked spiritual catch phrases too.
I use them as reflections and reminders.
Here’s another that I’d like to share:
“God loves us infinitely just the way we are. but He loves us too much to let us stay that way.”
I could spend my entire life meditating on that.
I thought that you would like that one too!
God bless,
Michael
I’ve mentioned that I have a priest friend who lives the life of a hermit. He’s always advocating and preaching the need for self-denial and mortification. Jesus teaches us this by His earthly journey. This not only applies to all priests and religious, but to the laity as well. We have to maintain a daily awareness of Christ crucified, if we have a sincere desire to attain heaven and eternal life with God. First Good Friday, then Easter Sunday right? Catholic priests and Catholic laity must be world leaders when it come to directing souls to God.
There has to be a boundary between the clergy and the laity, even though we share some of the same responsibilities. That was the reason for the altar rails in the Catholic churches of yesteryear. It’s very imprudent for a lay person to try to get too chummy with a priest and vice versa. It can potentially lead to all sorts of temptations and sins. A priest can never take the place of God in anyone’s life. I don’t care how articulate or holy he is either.
God gives the necessary graces to sustain one’s vocation in life. There were many called to the priesthood who were at one time involved in serious relationships i.e. Fr. Corapi. I don’t expect that he will be leaving us any time soon. I think that what makes the difference is their own personal devotion to our Lady. Her prayers are very powerful and irresistible to God.
FATHER JOE: Actually, the altar rail was not intended as a boundary or wall between the laity and the clergy. Indeed, neither was it meant simply as a support for kneeling. Ancient altar rails or walls were as high as four feet tall. As in the Eastern churches, the separation was to give us a heightened sense of the sacred space around the altar where the sacrifice of the Mass was offered and where the Eucharist was reserved. These separations sometimes included doors or curtains to enhance the mystery of the sacrament.
Fr. Joe,
This has all been incredibly helpful. It is good to know from an insider’s perspective how priests deal with emotional attachments to other women. Women whose highest desire is holiness find in a holy priest a kindred spirit; if he is particularly kind and understanding in the confessional, so much the more so. Attachments can innocently develop, and quickly become powerful and consuming. This is where Jesus’ words are relevant:
“And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell. And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell.” Matt. 5:29, 30
No matter how painful, the relationship must be cut off, for the sake of their souls, and for the souls for whom the priest is responsible. The suffering could be offered up for the priest in question, to obtain graces to strengthen him in his vocation. Satan uses every opportunity to attack the mind in such situations; if an inappropriate thought occurs, if one is prone to daydreaming about the “what if’s”, this should be cut off. Immediately praying, “O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to Thee” and offering it up specifically for the priest is a good practice; Satan’s attacks will begin to subside.
Thank you, Father, for sharing some personal insights into priestly struggles in this regard. I have a special love for priests; may God keep His sons faithful to the very end, and may His Holy Mother shelter them under Her mantle!
Fr. Joe,
I realize that the altar rail was never installed to act as a boundary like the ropes in a bank or a post office. It was there to remind everyone to be respectful of God’s presence. It’s subtle and silent presence reminded all of us of our true identities and roles in the church. I think that it was a big mistake to remove them. Now we have sneakers on the altar, immodest dress, and a plethora of disrespect to God……. IN HIS OWN HOUSE.
Remember the days when it was absolutely forbidden for a lay person to enter the sanctuary? I clearly remember the day when the gate was removed from the altar rail. It did serve a real purpose and it worked. I can’t help but question why we do away with such things when they’ve worked so well? Little by little these practices change. I also disagree with receiving Holy Communion in the hand because it brings about many opportunities for sacrilege. I’ve found consecrated hosts left in pews after Mass and I know that worse things than that are done. Evil people realize that it’s God, receive in the hand, then desecrate it. They will surely answer.
Yes I am old fashioned, but we all know that the old things worked and served us well until we did away with them. My original point was that there has to be boundaries in all relationships. Boundaries equal respect. When anyone oversteps a boundary, be it a priest or a married person, then they’re only looking for trouble.
In addition to my remarks about the Eucharist above, here’s some words from our Beloved Pope Benedict XVI
“Those who have received Holy Communion, in a special way, carry the Risen Lord within themselves. Just as Mary bore Him in her womb — a defenseless little child, totally dependent on the love of his mother — so Jesus Christ, under the species of bread, has entrusted Himself to us. Let us love Him as Mary loved Him! And let us bring Him to others, just as Mary brought Him to Elizabeth as the source of joyful exultation! Let us bring Sunday, and its immense gift, into the world!”–Pope Benedict XVI
Dear Father Joe:
I do apologize and I appreciate your candid and helpful answers. No I’m not a traditionalist or sdevacantist. I hold a Ph.D. in Classics from Yale. So I’m very sensitive to the appropriate use of Latin and Greek. I will go to confession for being such a smart ***
Do you think that one should bar men with a homosexual orientation from the priesthood? Aren’t they capable of remaining celibate? They too can remain chaste. I know some who are exemplary in their ministry and the chuirch would be all the poorer without them.
FATHER JOE: Normally I would agree, however my concern is the growing gay subculture among clergy in certain parts of the country. I suspect they would make it very difficult for such men to remain chaste. I am also concerned that their numbers might discourage heterosexual men from considering the priesthood. There is also an issue the the value of celibacy as a real sacrifice for a heterosexual man. The situation is somewhat different for homosexuals because they cannot have their desired sexual congress anyway. The recent Vatican clarification seems to confirm my view. Except for the rare cases where a juvenile homosexual event may have occurred, only heterosexual men are called to the seminary and holy orders. It should be said that the all-male seminary environment may also be problematical for homosexual men. I know my position might sound harsh, but I really feel it is for the best. I feel sorry for these men, but the Church comes first. Having said this, if a man has never had sexual congress and remains celibate throughout, I fail to see how the matter might even arise, except as part of a psychological exam. Even with heterosexuals, the Church must make sure that there is no juvenile arrested sexual development. That in itself can craete all sorts of problems with youth and with women.
The same holds for recovering alcoholics in the priesthood. Once they recover they can be of great help to their parishioners in need of recovery.
FATHER JOE: The Church will tolerate alcoholic priests and even allow them to witness to their sobriety. Homosexuality and sexual misbehavior is treated far more seriously today. The issue of scandal is so severe, that I doubt many bishops would tolerate “sharing” or “witnessing” to others. The likelihood is that they would be sent off to a Church institution and then perhaps laicized. Homosexuals, at least until recently, both ran and were treated by a number of these institutions. Reportedly they used their time in these facilities to network with gays in other dioceses.
Had my son announced that he would have liked to be a priest I would have been overjoyed. He decided to marry and has a handful of kids. Lately I asked my grandaughter (6 years old)t o pray for me. She retorted that she would, but wasn’t sure it would work because her parents have not put a crucifix in her room. I heard my son in the back shouting to his wife: move the crucifix from the living room to her room. Maybe she will be called to a vocation I never responded too. That remains my deepest sadness. I could never take that step. Poverty and chastity: yes….obedience: too difficult.
Thank you for your patience and wonderful ministry.
FATHER JOE: Sorry if my last post came off too hard. These host snatchers have really upset me. God bless you and I will keep you and your family in my prayers.
Fr Joe — What kind of “boundries” do you think a priest should have when he provides counseling to single young women? (and the relationship that follows?)
After reading this entire thread involving Fr Mary Stone it seems that if the proper boundries had been established in his case, at the get-go, the intimate relationship would not have “progressed.” I mean, it didn’t happen over night, …… just a little at a time. But there is an implied continuness in terms of a familar relationship over time.
Our priest is a fairly young man (40’s), nice looking, but kind of socially awkward. Lately I’ve noticed (because I do some volunteer work at the parish office) that a few young women that he’s previously counseled are constantly “stopping by” just to pick up an extra paper or drop off some cookies, etc. But what they are actually doing is trying to just casually bump into him so they get noticed and can spend a few minutes talking to him. (Other women can recognize this quite easily despite what you men might think). Now, all I can say is that he must have done an excellent job at counseling them (increasing their self-worth, etc) becasue they always get this look of “awe” on their face when he enters the room. Which, in and of itself is quite sweet. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with admiring a priest. And I don’t think there is any kind of impropriety going on, what-so-ever on any of their parts (YET). But the warning flags have started to wave in front of my face and I don’t know what to do about it as a (caring) third party. So, I was thinking that maybe if you wrote on this topic, I could just anonymously slip the advice in his office (kind of like a priest to priest exchange).
Because now I find out that the relationships have progressed a little further. He has participated in some outside (the parish) activities with them. And by the way, the 2 young women 25 yr, 30yr, have seen eachother but are not friends. One of the young women asked him to watch her bird while she went on vacation (claimed there wasn’t anyone else she could ask). But since the bird would be traumatized in a new environment, he had to go to her apartment twice a day to put its cover on and off and feed it! (And he agreed to do this for 5 days). And you have to understand, that this man is usually so busy that people have to book an appointment with him a month in advance. And ofourse, she had to show him where everything was in her apartment the first time, so she made him a gourmet breakfast (she came into the office and talked about it). The other young woman was having a small get-together with some of her friends and invited Father to attend, and he cancelled another dinner he had planned with a local parish family and went to her house instead. Now, again…… still nothing there. But I think he’s really enjoying their company…. maybe a little too much. I mean, they hang on every word he says, they laugh at all of his jokes, and they dress very modestly around him because he once said he liked the “old fashion” style. Ding, ding, ding, as the warning bells go off!
Both of these young women are trying to progress a “friendship” with him. But these friendships would be based on their original encounter with him as a priestly counselor …… a real boundry violation! To them, he’s the perfect man. It’s like he never “diffused” the emotional encounter or something. Like he didn’t give enough credit to Jesus Christ for the great counseling….. where it of course belongs. You can see it in their eyes ….. almost like he walks on water! One of the young women was mentioning a coffee shop that he just had to try….. “even if she had to drive him there herself.” I’m not sure if he went or not, but their efforts are continuing, and he seems to be soaking it up a bit too much!
As a man, I’m sure he’s very fattered (probably never got this much attention prior to becoming a priest (10 years ago….. he’s pretty shy). And we all like to feel good inside (I would imagine a priest does to). And right now, this is all in the open for the most part……. so you could say it’s “innocent.” BUT….. the potential is there ….. bad things could start to happen …… this is how things begin.
So, what advice would you give this man (priest)? Is he just being naive in how much control he is going to have if one of them makes a further move? (and, I don’t think either one of them is dating a regular guy…….. they are both too entralled with him!) I tried to look on the internet for other advice — but I came up empty. Should I just mind my own business? This man tries to be a good priest……. he prays alot, he’s usually very serious, quite orthodox ….. not sure what he’s thinking in this case though?! But he’s playing with fire. Maybe he will be strong enough. Maybe he’s just testing himself. Personally, I think it’s a stupid test for any man (the Bible tells us to flee from such temptation), and it also doesn’t “look good” if other people see them together either.
I’ve concluded by reading this blog that you’re a very wise man Fr Joe and you’re also a very wise priest. What advice would you have for our dear Father….. maybe we can have some of your wisdom rub off on him. He needs it right now. And nothing like “straight from a horse’s mouth…. priest to priest)!!
Karen,
I have already spoken some about this and I would not consider myself an expert on such matters. Further, I would not want to contribute to the fish-tank-voyeurism that many priests suffer under because of overly curious parishioners. Some people see the life of a priest as one would the first three seasons of the television series Ballykissangel. If you do not know about the show, it is available now on DVD.
For young priests who might be reading, I would urge them to be faithful to prayer and the Mass, approachable by their people, honest about their feelings, and to keep proper boundaries up, especially toward those who are attractive or who move them in any way that smacks of the romantic. When in doubt, a priest is already too close, and it is time to run like hell.
It is often best to make your best friends from among other men, particularly priests. Close female friendships, particularly with your peers, can often become uncomfortable and more than they should be. A young priest would do best to counsel men, children and elderly women; but sometimes one priest is all there is. Older priests might be attracted to younger women, but they will often see them as a father would a daughter. Such taboos can be quite helpful.
If a priest should start having inappropriate feelings, he should keep them to himself and not share them with the object of his desires. There are women who chase priests. All I can say in this regard is stop being nice. When you are no longer attractive to them, they will set their radar on someone else, maybe even a person who is truly eligible.
Nice, caring religious women are the most dangerous to a priestly vocation. Good priests are men who made a real sacrifice for God and the Church in embracing celibacy. Had the Church not confirmed their calling, they would likely have found such a nice girl of faith and have had a family. Such girls, much more so than the bad ones, are the ones that haunt their dreams and sometimes bring tears to their eyes. They are reminders of a road not taken. Priests might long for friendships with such women, but it is very precarious. He must avoid the bad girls for his reputation and the good ones for his vocation. He can interact with them as his ministry demands, but in the quiet hours of the evening it would be more profitable for him to spend an hour on his knees before the Blessed Sacrament than as a guest on any of their couches, no matter how sweet the coffee or tasty the dessert.
When a priest gets into trouble there are a lot of factors that must be considered:
1. What exactly did he do? Did he break his promises or was it a matter of the imagination and heartstrings? Was the involvement of a heterosexual or homosexual nature? Was it immoral? Are there criminal implications?
2. What is the potential fallout? Who knows about it? Must the authorities be contacted? What is the financial liability? Does his continued ministry pose problems? How does the situation affect his effectiveness in ministry? Is there a pregnancy? What responsibility or culpability has arisen because of the problem? How serious is the scandal and how readily would people forgive him?
3. How should the situation be resolved? Does he need therapy our special couseling? What punitive measures are required either by the Church and/or by the civil authorities? Can he be trusted to behave in the future? Can he be reassigned without causing undue scandal or more potential problems?
There is not much I can say about Father Francis at EWTN. Except for the matter of a “relationship” most of the pertinent facts have not been made public and I will not speak about anything not already widely known.
If a priest wants to return to ministry, his bishop or religious superiors would have to concur. Sometimes the Church will make a settlement and help a priest to clean up his mess, but not always. In the case of a relationship with a woman, the priest would have to agree never to have any contact with her or her family. It would be expected that the woman would agree not to continue any form of relationship, even platonic, with the priest. Priests who are celebrities are a particular problem, although I have heard of some who enetered monastic life or who later served in the missions. Some bishops and superiors have a low threshhold of tolerance and will immediately seek the laicization of such men. Ironically, I am told that homosexual men have a quicker turnover rate in regards to returning to parish ministry. I would prefer that any men who have had relationships contrary to nature or of a criminal type be permanently removed from ministry and laicized.
Fr. Joe,
I’ve been happily married to a beautiful practicing Catholic woman for eight wonderful years. I was 38 years old and my wife was 40 on our wedding day. Neither of us had been married before.
I would like to share a story regarding some great advice that a priest once gave to me when I was single.
I’m in business and I have to go on estimates to customer’s homes. The priest asked me if I enter the a person’s home when the female is there alone. My response is that I usually don’t enter the premises if I know that there is only a female present. I usually leave and return during the evening hours when her husband is there. It depends on the situation. If I know the person and if she is a long term older friend of the family or something like that, then I usually feel comfortable being alone with her. It depends on the person and the situation. My parents always taught me to learn from the mistakes of others.
The point that my priest friend was trying to raise was that it is very important to exercise prudence when dealing with others, especially when it’s male/female interaction. I’ve found in my business that there are many lonely housewives and women out there who just want some male company. Sometimes their husbands don’t have any time for them and they feel ignored or even rejected. I’ve been able to get a feel for this after being in business for many years. Sometimes a man can get blamed for doing something sinful when he was completely innocent. This happens to priests very often too.
The day after this priest friend warned me of this, a divorced woman with her child present hit on me while I was in her home. I immediately collected my things and told her that I wasn’t interested. I left without any hesitation while she glared at me like I was a nut. That day, I saw a person with red horns holding a pitchfork and have no regrets for leaving.
Fr. Corapi said that priests can’t be seen with other men because people will say that they are gay. They can’t be seen with women because then they will say that Father is having an affair. He most definitely can’t be seen with a child because he will be called a pedophile or a pervert.
When a person sends a gift to the clergy and they never acknowledge it, it’s probably because they’re afraid to for fear of being roped into something evil. I can understand their caution. Again, it all depends what the gift is and who it is that’s doing the sending.
The bottom line is to exercise wisdom in order to exercise prudence. In this case, there was no wisdom and there certainly wasn’t any prudence. Karen, you’ve mentioned boundaries. [They have to be in place.] Feminine affection toward a priest should automatically preclude any tendencies towards romantic love. That’s reserved for members of the opposite sex called into sacramental marriage alone.
This kind of thing happens when people follow their bodies and not their minds and spirits. It is very selfish act which hurts God and others.
Isn’t it the greatest tragedy in life is to miss out on God’s best for us? We don’t realize how our disobedience robs us of God’s graces and maybe our eternal future with Him.
How many Catholics don’t know the Ten Commandments by heart? How many don’t even care to know?
Life is too short and can end at any time.
The Ten Commandments
I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet you neighbor’s goods.
Hi Fr Joe – This is Karen again from post 174. I wanted to ask a follow up question based on your response in 175, specifically the comment:
“Further, I would not want to contribute to the fish-tank-voyeurism that many priests suffer under because of overly curious parishioners. Some people see the life of a priest as one would the first three seasons of the television series Ballykissangel. If you do not know about the show, it is available now on DVD.”
Now, Fr Joe, don’t you think this “slap on the wrist” was overly harsh and unnecessary? (aren’t you getting enough sleep, or what?)
FATHER JOE: No slap was intended. It was just a general statement about what priests live with all the time. I was not targeting you or any of those posting comments. It is one thing for people to care about a priest because they love the man and his office; it is quite another for those, even among non-Catholics, who have a Thornbirds-Soap Opera fascination with the priesthood.
Allow me to pose my question/dilemma another way….. an extrapolation from the first question but at a higher level. To what extent are we our “brothers keeper” and when do we butt-in,….. and how do we do so, in a loving Christian manner?
FATHER JOE: That is a tough question. I am not sure I know. Most priests would resent the laity directly involving themselves as critics of their personal lives. It really does take another priest to understand a priest. Maybe for that reason, when the issue is potentially scandalous, to inform another priest who already has his confidence? The priest is more likely to take advice seriously from another priest, especially one he respects, than a lay person who may not have all the facts. The worst thing that the laity can do is spread any gossip to others among the congregation. The business from the Scriptures where one retorts, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” is sorely misunderstood. Think about it, do you keep your brothers or family members in cages? You really are not your brother’s keeper and the community is not a zoo. We can offer our suggestions and assistance, but in the final analysis people will do what they are going to do. Such is the mystery of freedom.
I described a situation for you so you could see what I saw (from the ground up) –I didn’t mean to make it sound like a movie set with staged scenes similar to the TV series you suggested I purchase (to get my “fill” of a priest’s life drama and be fully satiated, huh?).
FATHER JOE: As I said before, my response to your comment was not directly targeted at you or in regard to the specific concerns of your priest.
The description I gave involves a totally above-board, out in the open, nice, relationship that is just beginning to blossom between the new priest at out parish (less than a year) and 2 attractive young women who he previously counseled. I bet if they were all to be hooked up to a polygraph machine it would show the best of intentions…they just like to be in his presence, and he just enjoys their admiration. BUT…. (re-read 174, I don’t want to repeat). This is how relationships get started! There is always a “beginning,” you know.
FATHER JOE: It all comes down to the fact that a priest should be prudent and practice detachment. As for the laity trying to read the signs of trouble on a priest’s behalf, it does not usually come to much. Despite what we think we know, there is often a great deal we do not know. I was challenged one time for going to the movies with a beautiful young woman. The lady challenging me was quite embarassed when she discovered that I was also with my baby brother and that the girl was my youngest sister.
I heard of one priest who was challenged by higher Church authorities for his familiarity with a couple of women (a parishioner called them) and it turned out that there was nothing to it– just a couple of generous ladies slightly smitten with the new priest and a priest, who was celibate but homosexual in orientation.
And I would bet that 99% of priest/woman relationships that result in him leaving the priesthood, start off wholesome, based on good stuff. But each additional step up the relationship ladder is more dangerous.
FATHER JOE: There are some hazards which come with the job. More women than men are involved with the parishes. Priests are going to be exposed to women, there is no getting around it. A celibate priest who is comfortable in his skin, sexually mature but fulfilled by his ministry and prayerlife, will not fall prey to the wiles of women.
Our Father has met both these young women off campus, and attended a casual get-together, etc. Nothing “bad.” And maybe he’ll never do it again (because he’ll realize it’s encouraging them). They are still trying to be in his presence often, and they are asking him out to other events. I personally, think it would do them all a world of good to reflect on the phrase “there for the grace of God go I.”
FATHER JOE: Are you his secretary? How can you know so much about this priest? I would not spend too much time worrying about him, really. He is a man, not a boy. Are you married?Do you see him like a son?
Now am I going to tell any of them that?! Heck no….. I’m too much of a coward! So there you have the “Confession” Fr Joe. I was looking for a piece of writing on the internet that advises a priest on how to deal, nicely but prudently, with young women who “just want to be his friend” …. who drop little gifts off for him….. who dress in a style they know he finds attractive …. and who keep inviting him to personal events. I was planning on slipping it under his office door anonymously.
FATHER JOE: I would counsel against such an anonymous action. Priests love mysteries. He will find you out. He might not be very happy. If you have to tell him, then sit down with him. However, I still think another priest would be more effective.
In my heart, I truly believe that the right thing to do is to speak to Father face to face and just tell him my concerns. But I previously concluded that I’m not strong enough to do that and the risk is too great. If I was to share my observations with him, and he became offended (which people often get when one butts into their private business) he could change the parish office volunteer schedule and assign me to the school office instead, or worse, just tell me my service was no longer required.
FATHER JOE: I hate to say this, but what you suggest is very likely.
Or he could just look at me with condemnation in his eyes and tell me how disappointed he is, in my lack of confidence in him, and then probably never treat me the same. I guess there’s a small chance he could thank me…. but realistically it’s tiny.
FATHER JOE: I would reckon he would be upset.
Hey, Fr Joe – I guess he could insult me and say he didn’t know he had a “voyeur” working in his office (of course I’d have to say that that’s not an original thought).
So let’s get the label correct….. it’s coward. But I thought some positive action (note under door) would be better than none at all.
FATHER JOE: I am too far removed to make an assessment of what is going on. I guess I would give him the benefit of a doubt, trusting that he knows what he is doing. You might also bring a watergun to the rectory to squirt these hot girls if they come by and need to cool off! No kidding! As for me, there’s no playing around… I keep a loaded BB Repeater Air Pistol in my desk… strange though, as my hair has fallen out and my waist has widened, I haven’t had to use it in quite some while… [sigh] oh well.
If anyone else has any thoughts about the subject, general or specific, I’d appreciate hearing them. When do we “butt-in” as concerned 3rd parties, how do we do it, or should we just leave things alone and let the “chips fall where they might.”
for Karen….regarding your last sentence.
That was why God sent Jonah to Nineveh to preach repentance. What happened to Jonah for refusing to go? There was so much more at risk than risking the life of Jonah.
Another example is St. John the Baptist. It takes courage and obedience.
One of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner. It shouldn’t matter if it’s a lay person, priest or whatever. People are afraid to speak out to give fraternal correction while souls fall into hell like snowflakes. No one wants to be singled out nor do they want to be told what to do. It takes courage to speak up in the face of wrongdoing.
We can “butt in” whenever we see sin in order to get rid of it. How many people in the work place talk about their sex lives with their co-workers while other co-workers stand there and say nothing? Isn’t there something seriously wrong with that. Nowadays, the women are worse than the men. There was a “Christian” woman at my wife’s work who recently threw a sex toy party. My wife wanted nothing to do with it and the girl became furious with her. My wife, who never misses Mass, has too much self respect to want anything to do with that garbage.
Do we stand there, go along or listen to it? Do we laugh along with them or do we walk away in disgust? They already know that it’s wrong and they do it anyway. The sad part is that these are adults with children.
I can’t stand it when anyone uses the “F” word especially when it’s coming from the mouth of a woman. I always cringe inside when I hear that word. Didn’t God put us here to be lights in darkness? We have every God-given right and obligation to speak out against sin.
Hi, I just want to share a message I received a couple of Sundays ago.
First to read Romans chapter 12.
My dearest daughter peace be with you. I love how you
are being obedient in what I tell you.
Love one another as I have loved you.
I my child will speak to my children through love. Love.
For love conquers all.
I want my priest to know how much I love them.
For when they are persecuted, it hurts ME also.
For my child I love them so. And my children who know ME know that my priest who take up their own life, to be willing to do MY will, know that
all that they do does not get unnoticed.
My children DO NOT Judge MY priest. Simply pray for them.
I know that some of MY sons may not be with according to
my laws, but I will be the Judge of that. I Your God will do everything to keep my priest in the right path. But I ask of you my children to pray for them. Do not judge but love. Love. Help those of My priest who
need guidance, who need My help. Pray for them. For
they represent ME. ME my children. I love them.
Some are going through many spiritual battles, while some
are going through a battle of keeping my church open.
Open and alive for my people.
I Your God need you my children to keep praying for My
sons. Do not judge but help them. I want my children
to know that just as you make errors, they make errors.
And just as you want ME to forgive your errors should I
not forgive My sons when they come to ME?
My children open your hearts. Open them.
Ask ME to increase your love. A love that I have for My
children. I know that it is easy to judge and speak ill
about my children, but it is also easy for you to say let us
pray and help our brothers and sisters in any situation
they need.
My little ones, release all fears and know that I your God
will help you. I will do what is best in any situation you are
praying and asking ME. Do not be afraid of what others
think and say. Remember I was persecuted for whom I
spoke with. I come for all. I came for all when I was on
earth. You my children will see, once you pray and love
my children. All my children, your heart is being molded into
what I want. A pure heart. A heart that is filled with love
and patience with kindness. And you will no longer feel
anger but joy to help all my children.
Pray for all my children. Especially my loving priest. For
so many are being attacked. And you my children can
help with prayers. Offer up that, what you do is also
pleasing to ME.
I love you. I thank you my children for reading this message and know that I Your God will always hear and
answer your prayers the way that I see what is best.
I love you. Peace, Peace, Peace.
I AM with you all!
FATHER JOE: From whom is the message?
Fr. Joe,
Not that I mind it I don’t, but why are you re-posting comments that were made over a year ago? Aren’t folks tuning in anymore?
Michael
Hope you’re feeling better.
MC sounds like a Charismatic. I was once part of a “Covenant Community” with my wife, where some people got these “messages” from God. The fellowship was very endearing but it became too much like control and through serious trauma we left this group and we were “shunned” by those who had been close to us.
This was one of the experiences that contributed eventually to our break-up, in a way, years later. The “teachings” of this community “resembled” the e5 experience witnessed in the “April Habisohn” letter I quoted in the other section of this blog.
It is why, as a male, father and abandoned husband I have empathy for Bai and women like her, even to some extent for my wife, who has become the “female reflection” of this , herself, a perpetrator of the very errors I was beginning to recognize and react to in the midst of the “final turmoils” of our time together.
Our attempts to become, better Catholics, were turned against us. But this would be a better post at the other place.
Fr. Joe,
I hope that you’re doing well. How are you?
Michael
4/3/2009
Fr. Joe,
You will never receive any criticism from me UNLESS you decide to invite a pro-death politician to speak at your church, which I seriously doubt that you ever would. You have the difficult task of weeding out comments made here that are inappropriate and sometimes very offensive.
I think that most of those negative comments and insults come from people who are interested in what the Catholic church has to say regarding this, that, or the other thing. It’s just that they aren’t able to accept what you tell them because that would mean that they would have to change. I also believe that some people in this forum are Catholics who are scared to death to go to a priest face to face for counsel and are also scared to death to go to individual confession. I’ve read their posts every day and have been for the past few years or so.
The good thing is that they stick their necks out by asking questions and by making posts here. They are being testy which gives you the opportunity to plant the seeds of truth. I can’t help but recall the words of the late, great JP2: ” Be not afraid.”
Your advice and counsel is always consistent with Catholic church teaching. I know that that doesn’t always make you the most popular guy on the planet, which stands to reason in this day and age. I realize that we’re trying hard to evangelize in a society that is becoming more and more morally bankrupt as time moves on. Moral relativism shuts people off from moral absolutes and objective truth.
You’ve also done a fantastic job here by not embarassing anyone. I know that when we get to Heaven, all of our failures will be known to all, as well as our victories, but we won’t have any remorse or regret about them either. In the meantime, we must remain careful and prayerful as we strive to help lead others to Christ.
If they have experienced any pain or a cause for transition it was justified. People aren’t always so emphatic about being open to the truth or about being moved from their comfort zones. Pain is a sign that something needs to be changed or corrected.
Mother Angelica said: “If you are not a thorn in someone’s side, you are not doing your job (as a Christian)!”
I’m sure that when we get to Heaven, we will receive thanks from those to whom we thought enough of to offer some fraternal correction while together on this earth.
I don’t think for one minute that you would ever do or say ANYTHING to deliberately hurt another human being.
Fr Joe,
I just found this site and have been reading with much interest the blogs on the women attached to their parish priest. Thank you so much for your comments on this. It has helped me so much……..my husband died very suddenly and unexpectedly of a short illness almost 3 years ago. We had both been involved in our parish for 14 years……the same length of time our pastor had been there. Our 2 girls went to school at this parish for years as well, and then this priest got transferred to another parish. In fact, his last mass was my husband’s funeral. I began going to the new parish where this priest was transferred, and have been going on and off ever since. I had become so emotionally attached to him, I felt that I was reading about myself from the comments from the other women. Of course I never said anything, but he’s not stupid, and he has been a priest for years. I know he has dealt with this many times before in his 25+ years.
Your comments and the other ladies have really put perspective on my situation, and I would never, never, never want to do anything to place him in an awkward position. He has told me we are “friends” but he also knows how to “handle the situation.” Your advice has helped me so much, and I realize now I just need to “leave him alone,” and find new areas of interest in my life. Thank you so much………
One more observation, I feel that he is truly as you mentioned previously: Comfortable with his celibacy, and very strong in his prayer life and has experience dealing with this type of situation from other parishoners………but I still need to look deal with my own issues of grief and lonliness..
Mary
No these priests certainly are not stupid, and must think us pathetic fools for allowing ourselves to fall for them. Indeed they know how to “handle the situation” by a prolonged and lasting silence and they are blessed with many more graces than a lonely woman.
It it almost two years since my priest friend has departed and looking back I am both embarrassed and ashamed of the overwhelming feelings I had and my lack of strength to overcome them. I suffered a lot of pain over this for a very very long time — I had no guidance or anyone to listen or help me through it. A most awful experience to go through that I would not wish on any woman. Our Catholic faith condemns us for it.
Mary I am so sorry for your loss – God be with you in your grief loneliness – and may He guide you to a new and fulfilling path.
Janine
Fr Joe,
It’s true that God will judge priests more severely than the rest of us. If a priest knows in his heart of hearts that he tried with the help of God’s grace to minister to His people, then I don’t think that he should be petrified about being judged.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t we choosing between good and good most of the time? I’m not saying that we aren’t sinners, so don’t misunderstand me. I know that I’m a sinner in need of the mercy of God. I think that God will judge us perfectly with the intent to reward rather than to condemn. He told St. Faustina that He only comdemns the soul who condemns itself. We condemn ourselves by willfully living apart from Him in sin and by not trusting in His mercy.
Honestly, I don’t think that you have hurt too many people. You could probably count them on one hand anyway. God has definitely borrowed your lips and your hands (by typing) on many occasions to properly minister to His people, whether they like it or not.
.
Have a blessed Holy Week and a joyous Easter!
The Divine Mercy novena begins Friday.
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/novena.htm
DELETED EWTN COMMENTS: TOO MUCH?
A number of these new posts are reworkings of material taken from the closed and edited EWTN thread. It was the most severe reordering of material I have ever made on this Blog. A huge amount of material (95 comments, many quite large) were moved and placed behind a “protected” post. A half dozen or so comments were deleted completely.
Please know that this runs against the grain to the openness I like to maintain here. One person sent a comment, accidently lost in the spam folder, that she was out of here, thinking this was her fault. It was not and she is still welcome here. Most everyone who is cordial and respectful, is still welcome here.
A person made a revelation that might be truthful, or it might be a lie. If it is the latter, they will have to live with that sad act. Please, if anyone feels that I or anyone has personally and directly offended them on this site, do not play games or hide behind anonymity. Send me an email or a comment not to be published. I will see what I can do to fix the problem.
I am not impeccable and this Blog is a work in progress.
God Bless!
You have made a post about this topic on 4/5. I just read it and Father Richard is correct. we have to hope and pray for his conversion.
I have yet to refer to Obama by using the “P” word and I refuse to.
In the short amount of time that he has occupied the Whitehouse, he has made several grave errors. I’ve also noticed that he is lost without the use of a teleprompter.
I feel very badly for this year’s graduates of Notre Dame and also for their parents. They have sacrificed so much for that one day, and now it’s ruined. What’s worse is that Notre Dame’s identity as being a “Catholic” university will be perpetually tarnished.
This is a case of self-destruction.
Michael, most Catholic voters chose Obama. So I doubt that many of them will be at all unhappy with having the president speak at Notre Dame.
What’s the big deal about using a teleprompter? You don’t seriously expect anyone who has to do that much public speaking to memorize everything, do you?
Obama uses a teleprompter for his speeches, just like everyone else, and he does fine. Bush used a teleprompter, but somehow managed to be completely incoherent anyway.
Thanks Father Joe.
You have to do what you think is best.
Madalen,
The “Catholics” that voted for Obama are nominal Catholics. True Catholics didn’t give the guy a second thought because he is so adamantly opposed to everything that our church teaches and upholds. Regarding the teleprompter, I understand that he is incapable of memorizing everything.I also agree with you concerning your remark about Bush. He wasn’t the most eloquent guy on the planet either.
That wasn’t my point. My point is this: Take a good look at the way that he responds to an impromptu question. It takes him forever to answer. When he finally does answer, he repeats his answer as if to confirm it to himself. I couldn’t help but notice this on several occasions, even before he was elected.
When you ask a person a question they usually respond immediately with an answer, which is accepted as either true or false. They don’t have to dig deep down for something to say. A true leader isn’t afraid. The late Mother Teresa, God rest her soul, didn’t care what anyone thought. She always told the truth in season and out. It didn’t matter who was listening. John Paul II was also like that. Had I been elected President, and I trust and thank God that that won’t ever happen, my first order of business would have been to tell this nation and this world to get on it’s knees in reparation and to ask almighty God to deliver us from paganism and also from our culture of death. The economy should be the least of our worries right now. I wouldn’t have needed a teleprompter to do it either.
Yeah, Obama is very good in front of the camera while reading prepared material, but take the teleprompter away and he’s lost.
The best way to protest Obama at Notre Dame is to remove the teleprompter.
He was recently quoted as saying that America was “arrogant” and “dismissive” of it’s allies. Where did this come from? This is absolutely false. This is an insult to our veterans who not only fought for our country, but who also fought for someone else’s. Some of those poor guys came home in bad shape, like my late uncle who came home and died 8 months later after WW2. He was killed over there and didn’t even know it.
The folks in Europe during WW2 would bow and tip their hats to anyone in an American uniform. I read the newpapers too and it seems that whenever trouble rears it’s ugly head anywhere in the world, America gets involved in it one way or another.
I wouldn’t call that “arrogant” or “dismissive”.
I hope that they went to confession after the election before receiving Holy Communion.
Fr. Joe, Janine, Madalen and everyone else here,
Have a blessed Easter.
Michael
TODAY: IS HOLY THURSDAY. THIS INSTITUTION OF THE TWO INTIMATELY CONNECTED SACRAMENTS WHERE INSTITUTED ON HOLY THURSDAY.
#1. HOLY COMMUNION
#2. HOLY ORDERS
THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS WAS INSTITUTED ON HOLY THURSDAY. IT WAS THE LAST SUPPER, AND THE FIRST MASS.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FR. JOE,
QUESTION: CAN THE POPE WHO IS OLD HAVE A “BATHROOM” BREAK — DURING ALL THESE VERY, VERY, VERY, LONG MASSES, ETC.
QUESTION: CAN THE POPE — HAVE A “HANDICAP RAMP” made for himself, or others like: AILING PRIESTS, CARDINALS, AND COMMUNICANTS?
THESES CHURCHES CERTAINLY HAVE FAR TOO MANY STEPS TO GO UP AND DOWN. HE’S NOT 33 YEARS OLD LIKE JESUS WAS. HE’S OLD. CAN’T THEY DO SOMETHING TO ASSIST HIM, AND OTHERS?
I’M A MOM. I THINK OF THESE THINGS. PLUS I’M OLDER NOW, TOO. I CAN NO LONGER DO RELIGIOUS GYMNASTICS, OR EVEN KNEEL, DO TO TWO KNEE SURGERIES.
HAVE A HOLY TRIDUUM, GO TO CONFESSION, AND MASS IF YOU CAN. MASS ON SATURDAY IN ALL THE CHURCH’S LOCALLY IS AT 9PM. THE BUSES STOP AT 10PM. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO GET HOME? I CAN’T AFFORD A TAXI. I PAID $18.00 FOR ONE JUST TO GO LESS THAN 5 MILES. I COULD WALK HOME. BUT I AM TIRED, OLD, AND NOT SURE IT WOULD BE SAFE. MY MIND CAN DO IT, MY BODY IS LIKE A JACK ASS, IT DOESN’T ALWAY COOPERATE WITH MY MIND.
I USED TO BE A “CATTLE RANCHER, AND A LUMBER JACK, AND A NURSING STUDENT, NURSE’S AID.” I AM JUST PLAIN TIRED OUT SOMETIMES. I’VE BUSTED EVERYTHING. MAYBE EASTER MASS WILL BE WATCHED ON EWTN. I’LL CALL TO THE PARISHES FOR A RIDE. I DID THAT ONCE, AND THEY SAID NO. LAST NIGHT I ASKED GOD FOR A RIDE, AND FOLKS THAT DON’T LIKE ME MUCH, AND WHO ARE ALWAYS SURE I’M NO GOOD, GAVE ME A RIDE HOME. IT WAS AWKWARD. I WAS NOT AT MY BEST PHYSICALLY. SO TIRED. BACK WAS HURTING, PROBABLY BECAUSE OF MY SINS AGAINST HOLY PURITY IN MY LIFE. JESUS WAS SO GOOD TO CONDESEND AND ANSWER MY PRAYER, AND GIVE ME A RIDE HOME. I MISSED THE LAST BUS.
OH WELL, I’LL FIGURE IT OUT — WITH HIS HELP. I WILL ASK THAT $5.00 TAXI THAT ISN’T RELIABLE FOR A RIDE SUNDAY OR SATURDAY NIGHT.
THINGS WILL WORK OUT WITH GOD’S HELP.
HAPPY TRIDUUM +++ HAPPY & HOLY EASTER!
THANKS FOR THE PRAYERS, FR. JOE, MICHAEL AND EVERYONE.
Fr. Joe,
I’m new to this website. I find it very interesting that many of the posts are focused on the women who pursue a relationship with a priest, when in my situation the relationship began with him showing excessive interest in me first. Never in a million years would I have considered having a relationship with a priest, it just never occured to me. I thought he was attractive, it was hard not to notice that basic fact, many women in my parish did, but I viewed him as my parish priest, as I had all other priests from my past. I respected their position and did not set off pursuing or chasing him, and truthfully never did, a friendship just naturally began between two people with much in common and a mutual admiration.
We became friends as I said before because he first showed interest in me. He would show up where I was, go out of his way to talk to me after masses, would gaze at me for long stretches during mass, and then I did start seeing him for counseling as I was going through a divorce. We became close friends and then I realized in time that I was in love with him. For four years he would pull me in, then push me away before things could ever get out of hand, nothing inappropriate ever took place between us physically (just hugs and platonic kisses on the cheek). This back and forth in our relationship was difficult because I never knew what to expect from him. I tried to talk to him once early on about our feelings, he became very emotional as I did (in tears), and kept telling me he couldn’t have a relationship with me because he was a priest. I was aware of this however, I’m a person who needs to have honesty in all my relationships, so it was very frustrating to not be able to talk openly with him and to see how we were meant to proceed with these feelings that were so obvious, even my closest friends could see it happening. Then I finally did write him a letter after two years of back and forth between us and I admitted my love for him. At that time we talked again, and yet again he told me that he valued our friendship but couldn’t take it further, it always felt to me like his explanations were very rehearsed, that it wasn’t really him speaking to me but a script that he was forced to follow. I hope that doesn’t sound harsh, but that’s how I felt.
He never admitted in the four years he was at my parish to feelings for me, however he would tell me how much he valued our friendship, and he would speak directly to me at mass about love, he continued to show that he liked being around me and took an interest in those that I was close to as well. Then he was abruptly transferred from our parish, leaving after only two weeks notice. Prior to his leaving he had become very distant, not seeking me out anymore, staying clear of me, even at times being rude to me, in general making himself scarce to me, then he left. We did have a chance to say good-bye, but it was a public good-bye with many others around, so nothing could ever really be elaborated on. In an email is where he told me no more contact after he left, that our friendship couldn’t continue, that was the extent of our final conversation on the four years we had spent together.
I’ve spoken to several priests and a priest counselor who have all said that he was in love with me, and that this was the way these situations are handled, and that he did everything by the textbook, cutting off contact, telling me we could no longer be friends, not openly sharing his feelings, however his actions always spoke volumes.
He’s been gone for over four years now and I still struggle with closure, doubting myself, missing him, and truly letting go. I think from my own personal standpoint that when I was cut off so abruptly and told that there could be no further contact, I was then left feeling very hurt, angry (sometimes I admit toward the church), I’ve had feelings of doubt and mistrust toward myself, and definitely to this day no sense of closure. I still love him, will always love him, and I do believe he loved me too. I don’t blame him for what he had to do, however I’m an honest person and would have benefited from the truth, even if it meant saying good-bye. I would not have tried to interfere or stop him, I never wanted to take him from his calling, or to engage in sin, I just wanted to keep a friendship with someone I loved and whom I think loved me in return.
I have a hard time believing that love which is a gift from God could be a sin, even if one of those people is a priest. I could really benefit from any words you can give me to help me into acceptance/letting go in my grieving process. It truly is for me like I’ve lost someone to death, I have definitely grieved this loss more than any other in my life.
God bless you for your work Fr. Joe; it is wonderful to find someone who will openly be honest about a rather touchy subject. Thank you! May the Lord continue to bless you.
Tess
Tess,
It may be that the identifying information only appeared on your computer while the comment was under moderation. No one else is supposed to be able to see it… something about how cookies work? When I made a test, I did not see the email address.
When I look at your comment above, I do not see any personal information other than the name you gave. Hope this is okay. I will make a few comments soon.
Peace,
Father Joe
Thank you Father Joe, I’m new to this so was nervous about my private information being published. I will await patiently your response and words of wisdom, I look forward to the day I will have closure and can move on successfully. God bless!
Tess
Tess,
Actually, I would not be surprised if he was following a script. If he had a regular confessor or spiritual director, the advice would be precisely to put brakes to the friendship. Indeed, the back-and-forth business was not fair to you and was dangerous for him. He probably prized his relationship with you and found it difficult to let go. Eventually, the only recourse was to leave entirely.
You mentioned that others may have seen something of the sparks between the two of you. If he himself, or someone else, contacted the chancery, not only would he be quickly moved, he would be told point blank to have no further communications with you. He would be given an ultimatum, stop playing games and break off this relationship (platonic or not) or face suspension and the loss of his priestly vocation!
Explanations are rarely offered. Priests may be advised to admit or say nothing. Women are sometimes left with a serious lack of closure. All I can add is that priests are not their own but are men under authority. Your priest-friend might have wanted to tell you many things; but obedience obliged him to remain silent.
Love in itself is not a sin; but, a misdirected or inordinate love might lead to forbidden activities. Even if you were strong and honest, the lack of clarity and capricious behavior of your priest-friend might have hidden his own weakness and lack of certitude about his feelings toward you. We cannot know what his personal struggle might have been. It is not even known for sure if he had the type of maturity to deal as an adult should with romantic love and the accompanying sexuality.
You may always love and miss him. However, just as he must focus his heart upon the love of God and ministry to his people; you need to place the gravity of your affections upon those who are free to respond and interact as friends and maybe something more. Pray for your priest-friend and all priests that they will be good and faithful. As best as you are able, let go of him and move on. You have a right to be happy.
Father Joe
Fr. Joe,
Thank you for your kind words, I will continue to pray and know that God will bring me through this difficult time. Thank you again for all you do, your honesty is truly valued.
God bless you always.
Tess
Tess,
My sister in the faith, I will certainly pray for you – as I have walked the same painful path. Time is a slow healer when deep emotions are involved. It is fruitless to love and put so much energy into someone who cannot or will not return it. Yes the silence hurts the most. It is as if you no longer exist or matter. But as Fr. Joe stated, it is as it must be and there is little you can do.
God be with you always and may you find peace and the love of a wonderful godly man whom you can truly have all to yourself
Janine
Janine,
Thank you for your prayers, they are greatly appreciated! Time is a slow healer, the grieving process for me has been long and painful. The part that has been most difficult for me is acceptance, I waver back and forth trying to accept what has happened and completely move on. I’m almost there and certainly with Fr. Joe’s encouragement, yours as well, and the love/support of many friends and family, I will one day finally be healed. Of course the Lord with His unending mercy and love has been responsible for helping me through this; He is my reason for finding the joy in all things and staying strong. For all those who find themselves in our place, pray and stay close to God, from prayer is where you will find the most comfort.
Women who have gone through this understand that it takes a toll on you because it takes hold of you like nothing else. Because of the way that it’s handled I think that women are often left in the dust wondering what happened to them. I love my Catholic Faith, however I have to believe there is a better way for priests to be instructed by their superiors to handle the feelings and emotions involved when they inevitably fall in love. The church can’t deny that it happens, obviously it does (we are both examples and I’ve known others as well), when it does I’m an advocate for a new plan so that all those in involved end up in a much healthier place when the relationship is over. I’ve had other significant relationships, but this has definitely been the longest to heal from.
Thank you again for your kindness, please pray for love to come my way, this time from a man that I can truly have. I in turn will pray for you.
God bless,
Tess
Every person has two great needs. The need to love and the need to be loved. If there isn’t any love in our lives that means that there isn’t God in them either.
We must put on the mind of God in all things and make ourselves like Christ because Christ is love.
I remember when I was younger and had crushes on girls that wanted nothing to do with me. The only person who was crushed was me. I guess that’s why they call them crushes. Anyway, when I look back I have to laugh because I see how I was back then and what I am now. My attitude toward the members of the opposite sex has changed dramatically within the past thirty years. I don’t look at myself or at women the way that I used to. Now, I am married to a beautiful woman for nine years, and I wouldn’t change that for anything in this world.
My point is this: We will always have the need to love. We just have to learn to wait upon the Lord to provide the right person for romantic love IF He desires that for us.
If He decides not to send that person, then we have to remain focused on Him and trust that He knows what’s best for us, for surely He does. I was thirty eight on my wedding day.
My wife works with a few divorced gals that are always searching for male companions.
They meet men on the internet or somewhere else, and these relationships never seem to work out.
It has to be Christ first.
The best way to find closure at the end of a forbidden relationship is to find a new love.
That doesn’t always mean finding another person. It could mean excercising a deeper prayer life, serving the poor, visiting the sick or imprisoned, looking in on an elderly person whose family has abandoned them. There are so many good things that we can do to love and to be loved in return.
In the grand scheme of things, the only real love that matters is our love for God and His love for us. This is how we get to Heaven, which makes everything else pale in comparison.
Janine and Tess, thank you so much for all of your information. I feel at peace. Michael, your advice is very true as well, but I feel that you are somewhat cold, perhaps you are fighting your own issues? I’m glad you are married and happy, but something doesn’t “jive.” These questions/comments have been for Fr Joe, yet you seem so eager to continually offer advice to all of us who lack your tremendous insight……
Dear Fr. Joe,
I found your blog this evening & I am amazed at the amount of discussion that goes on about women loving priests.
I am even more surprised at your less than pastoral responses. I suspect a number of these women are going through a mid-life crisis and from their descriptions, many question their sanity in the process. A real pastor would recognize that this is not a sexual issue, but one related to a lack of confidence and a seeking of direction as these women try to find their places in their changing world. Instead of making them feel sinful and exacerbating their feelings of insanity, why don’t you consult with a trained professional counselor as to the best way to respond to and help them. Many of them have given countless hours serving their parishes and deserve better than this.
Michael, I am overwhelmed at the depth of your insight. Why don’t you spend a little more time with your lovely wife. If you don’t, I predict she will soon be posting her own feelings for her parish priest here.
OK, Fr Joe, I can’t sleep, obviously, and will be getting ready to go to Mass in a few hours. As I am typing this I am thinking that I should spend my sleeplessness in prayer instead of going immediately to these posts, recently I have not been a very good friend to Christ Who has given me so many gifts these past few years ( when my husband died I spent many hours in prayer which got me through so much…..), but I just wanted to let everybody know again how much I appreciate being able to read these and to express my feelings here. I had wanted to discuss this with certain priests and / or a specific nun in my diocese, but honestly, too many people know both sides of my family, and I didn’t want to chance it. I hope I don’t get to be too much of a pain – I will probably be posting more comments in the future – its so nice to be anonymous and to get the viewpoint of a priest with some of my concerns. Being able to talk about it has helped me so much – its somewhat diffused a lot of the agony I have been going through, thinking about the unfairness of it all, etc. etc. The truth of the matter is that I can’t imagine this man not being a priest. He has been such an inspiration and guide to so many people, it would be heartbreaking for everyone if something happened in his vocation. Tess and Jeanine, and Michael too (!) I hope you all have a wonderful Sunday. Keep me in your prayers please……..And God be with all of our priests and all of those who love them…….
Mary,
I will pray for you, what you have gone through puts my problems into perspective. I hope you can find peace.
Fr. Joe, I truly appreciate how straightforward you are, for me I felt that you were kind while stating the facts. Honestly I’ve been searching for someone to do just that for a long time. Others I’ve turned to including other priests have always sugar coated it, I needed the truth to make me sit up and take notice of the gravity of my situation. I don’t think I ever truly realized what he probably went through and that I was partly responsible for that until now. I never wanted to jeopardize his vocation, but that is exactly what most likely happened and for that I hope I am forgiven. My only excuse is that I was ignorant to it all because nothing like this had ever happened to me before. It has definitely jolted me into the realization that it’s time to let go, he was never mine and never will be. I do disagree with the way that the church instructs priests to handle these situations, I don’t believe it’s fair to the woman or the priest, however the facts remain, this is the way it is and I needed to hear it. I am not offended, I am on my way to discovering closure and peace because of your answers and insight. Thank you for helping me, I remain one of your supporters!
God bless!
Tess
Hey Bonnie,
Where did you come from and what gives you the right to come here to bash people? Maybe you’re one of those who was jilted or you came up in a badly dysfunctional family.
Regarding your idiotic remark about me spending time with my wife, my wife is my best friend and we have a beautiful marriage. She would NEVER consider fooling around with a priest or anyone else because she wants to go to heaven. She has integrity and faith, unlike yourself. You obviously have thoughts in that direction because you’re pining for a man and can’t find one.
Gee…..I wonder why?
No Mary,
I don’t have any issues and I am not a cold hearted person. I have to be honest and tell you that “being human” doesn’t excuse everything. I am first in that line and NO, I don’t know everything there is to know about relationships.
I am a married man who is faithful to his wife and to this Catholic faith. It disturbs me when I read these posts about women who chase after priests and married men because they have an emptiness inside and are looking to have it filled. What I’m saying and have said in prior posts was that God must first in a person’s life. Jesus said:
“apart from me, you can do nothing” and He meant it. The objective is for us and for those around us to get to heaven. I didn’t have to go to seminary and I’m not a trained theologian to figure that out. I was single at one time too.
I also think that there are single men and women out there who are insanely jealous of married folks. I’ve witnessed it first hand within my own family. They want something that they can’t have. Marriage is a vocation just like being single or being called to religious life. I love being married and I thank God for my wife every day. Marriage in our culture has come under relentless attack because the devil knows that if he can destroy marriage and family life, then he can destroy an entire society. Simply look the United States now and also the stats on marriage. Fifty percent end up in failure. Why?
Michael,
Ok, I was trying to take the high road, but you are completely offensive. I didn’t fool around with a priest, nor am I a pathetic school girl with a crush. I , like many other woman who have found themselves in this position, get attention from all kinds of men. I’ve never had any trouble in that area. I can’t help it that one of them was a priest. What I’m trying to say and unfortunately it’s coming off in an arrogant way, is that I didn’t choose this situation deliberately. Nor am I so lonely that this is all there was for me; that is very far from the truth. I also don’t fool around with married men. I too am a faithful Catholic. I don’t appreciate you making this into something ugly. My relationship was a beautiful friendship for several years that transpired naturally, and it was never acted on inappropriately. Both of us did the right thing in the end; he’s gone and I didn’t in my pathetic, sad way chase after him to try to lure him back to me. I let him go as was the right thing to do.
Why are you here? Why do you have any interest in women that have had relationships with priests? I don’t get it, nor did any of us ask you for your opinion; we’re asking for Fr. Joe’s. Sorry, but I can’t keep silent anymore, you keep digging yourself into a deeper hole here. You are happily married; I hope to be someday too. I’m not jealous of that. I believe that the future holds that for me, too. Go and enjoy your beautiful wife and let us heal here without any more of your deep and profound advice.
Bonnie: Just a little side note, I did not go through a mid-life crisis; anyone who knows me personally knows that I live life to the fullest. I am not the pathetic little woman that you and Michael are making us all out to be. I’ll ask you the same question, why are you here? At the very least you and Michael are a little too interested and critical of other people’s lives, that too is a sin.
God bless everyone!
Tess
Michael, I hear what you are saying, and I agree with you, but I think you have missed my point and perhaps I should have been clearer: Of COURSE God should come first. But I also say this: You TOO have not been very kind in your previous posts. I have read all of them regarding this subject. So yes, you seem cold and judgemental. If you did not mean to be so be it, but you did sound that way. I don’t think you were very kind to Janine when she expressed herself to Father Joe, and I would also like to say this: We all know how most devout Catholic lay people feel about this. What I in particular was asking was a viewpoint from a priest who by the way has helped me immensly in my struggle.
If you read my entire postings you will see that I too was married, I had been married for 20 years to a devout Catholic man and we were devoted to the Church and to each other. We raised our children in the Catholic Schools and loved each other – we were best friends – we had known each other for well over 20 years.
Now, no excuses on my part whatsover…….what I would ask of you is to show a little bit of compassion for people. And again, while I admire your morality and your beliefs because I TOO believe as you do, I would hope you would show some compassion. Women who are chasing after priests and married men just to be chasing them are certainly not coming to this blog.
My issue, and again, I am not whining, and I am not complaining, I am just trying to show you where I am coming from: My husband was called to God within a 2 day time span in which I was in complete shock, denial and not prepared. He appeared completely healthy and had come back from a well-deserved trip. We had just come back from a 2nd honeymoon ourselves 2 mos. previously. Our whole lives / MY whole life since I had been in my 20′s, was built around this parish and we were friends with the priest who had been there for years. Now, think for a minute: My husband of 20 years died suddenly. The only priest I had known since my husband and I were married was this priest. They were both taken from me at the same time. I was reeling……my entire life was snatched and I am just now feeling half sane. I couldn’t face having 2 things taken from me at the same time. And yes, I have been in counseling and have re-devoted myself to the church, and have become active. Yes, I became emotionally attached to someone who has been a major part of my life. All I am asking is this: we all have enough moral educators out there. we need more compassionate people.
Fr Joe, I again thank you because you are a priest and a counselor , and have put a lot of perspective on my situation. You have opened my eyes so to speak. I hope you understand my thoughts and would understand why some of Michael’s statements were felt to be cold. Do you see that as well, or do you think I sound bitter? Ok, no more about my issues. I also wanted to tell you I enjoy this entire site….
Fr Joe, one more thing if I may add, I’m not asking that people be “nice.” You have been very honest, but in a very professional manner that speaks the truth and is also non-confrontational. I am speaking of comments like, “You need to get your head examined, etc. etc.” In short, belittling people, which you have never done.
Fr. Joe,
I thank God for this blog and for your valued priestly insights. You always tell the truth, like it or not. I know that some people here don’t always like my remarks and comments.
I could care less. When I die, it’s going to be myself and the merciful heart of Jesus alone.
Mother Angelica had this saying:
“if you are not a thorn in somebody’s side – you are not a Catholic.”
We lay people have an edge on the religious when it come to evangelization. We don’t have to worry about losing tax exemption status. God expects the laity to practice holy boldness in a world that is rampant with sin. Jesus HATES complacency and the lukewarmness of so many souls. He said that He wants to spit them out of His mouth.
The word WRONG has become a dirty little word that we aren’t supposed to use anymore. Nothing is WRONG anymore and people can do whatever they want to.
To that end, all I have to say is that hell is real and hell is forever and I don’t plan on spending my eternity there.
Michael,
Evangelization comes in many forms. One that is just as important is leading by example. Many times it isn’t necessary to verbalize beliefs all of the time, what about letting people see the light of Christ shine through your actions / deeds? Christ showed much compassion to people without being lukewarm. Of course it is mentioned about lukewarmness and Christ’s feelings towards that, but if you remember he also confronted many people about judging others.
Do you show people your compassionate side? Do you speak kindly of those while you are evangelizing?
Tess,
I don’t know everything and never claimed to.
To answer your question, I have a priest friend, a very dear priest friend who faced a similar situation. A woman came to him for marital counseling. She and her husband were having problems. They were good well meaning people who were facing some difficulty. They were also blessed with wealth. Not that that should matter. Anyway, my friend shared his story with me about how his friendship with this woman suddenly began to develop into something unexpected and wrong, by no fault of his own. She told him that she “loved” him (romantically) and that she needed him. I was flattered that he had asked me to meet him over a cup of coffee to discuss it. He began explaining to me how this woman was sending him large sums of money, calling him all of the time, sending him expensive gifts etc. At the end of our discussion he asked me how I would handle it if I were in his shoes. I told him to cut off his relationship with her immediately and to send everything back to her, including the thousands of dollars that she had sent. The material items that she had sent were more than just simple tokens of gratitude. I think that my friend had known all along that that was the right thing to do. He called her and told her not to contact him anymore. I think that he also called her husband as well. He cut off all ties to her, and he also returned all of her gifts. She agreed with his decision and never bothered him again.
I did feel sorry for this woman who was struggling and was looking for peace. The lesson taught me a great deal too. It taught me that money doesn’t hold couples together and that people can become very vulnerable in times of personal crisis. My friend had the wisdom and the presence of mind to make the correct decision no matter how painful it was. It proved that he cared enough about God, the woman, and himself to do the right thing no matter how painful the consequences.
I also ran into one of my parish priests a long time ago arm in arm with a woman in a department store. He was more shocked to see me than I was to see him. Sorry to say that he is no longer a priest. He married her.
This is why I can relate to this topic.
Mary,
I am very compassionate and would do anything for anyone if given the opportunity. They know that we are Christians by our love and faith without works is dead.
I grew up in a very strict Catholic family. My father was a strong and tough Italian stone mason who didn’t take any nonsense from anyone. I felt his hand many times while growing up. The man did me a favor.
One of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner. That means that we have to speak up in the face of wrongdoing, which takes a certain amount of bravado and courage. I don’t know your age, but I can remember a time when the neighbors would correct the neighborhood children who were misbehaving. Imagine if they did that today. God forbid if anyone lays a hand to the back side of a bad kid, parent or not. There would be calls to 9-11, lawsuits, fights, bad feelings you name it. I see how society has drastically changed in a short amount of time and I don’t like it. We have become spiritually dead and complacent.
I agree when you say that we can evangelize by more than just the use of the tongue or by the pen. We have to be living signs of Christ’s presence to a sick and sinful world.
I would love to see the United States of America become a religious country once again. A country where everyone prayed and went to church on Sunday. That would make God very happy and life so much easier on everyone. I’m sure if that happened, abortion would definitely end and the economy would surely improve. The world would be a much better place. In the meantime, we shouldn’t be afraid to take a stand for Christ no matter how unpopular that is. He is giving to us the tremendous opportunity to practice heroic virtue which will yield an ernormous amount of merit.
Those of us who truly love God are like St. Joan of Arc right now. We’re all tied to a stake and being burned by those who love ignorance and the devil. There are many today who aren’t at peace and don’t want others to be at peace either. Jesus gave St. Faustina the answer when He said that mankind will not have peace until it turns with trust to His mercy.
We have to turn to God always and everywhere and if others are offended or intimidated by that, then that’s their problem and their loss.
No Mary, we do not need more compassion, as in that which excuses, encourages and counsels into and to ignore WRONGDOING!
I am living the fruit of that CRAP!
I am very sorry for the circumstances of your becoming a widow. But I became a “functional widower” when a “compassionate” priest told my wife to divorce me and attempt to get the annulment that she “deserved”.
I know temptation very well, too.
“Compassion”, as it is understood and practiced in these times, is not what real compassion means.
Among the worst most evil, damaging, sinister, corrupted people I know speak and act softly, with “kind” words of compassion———leaving in their wake death and destruction that is not even noticed. Many of these worse-than-low-lives, who give SCUM a bad name, wear Roman collars or have advanced degrees in Theology, Canon Law…
There are very, very, very few good priests that I have ever met. The good ones are a distinct minority. I only hear of them on a rare occasion. I do not really concern myself if this seems harsh, because it is the reality of my experience and those to whom I have spoken.
I feel for the good priests, they are in a lion’s den among their brother priests and bishops.
I completely find “compassion” in this modern world to be rubbish.
Mary,
My heart just breaks for you! I had tears in my eyes reading your story. To lose your husband so quickly and then also the support and presence of a priest friend so soon afterwards, what an awful cross. It is easy to see how you became attached, it was with no sinful intent. None of us are not always entirely in control of where our feelings lead us, only constant prayer and putting God in our lives can bring us to that, and even then, it is an ongoing journey, one that is often a long and painful one with two steps forward, and ten steps back.
My dear sister in Christ, I will be praying for you. And also for all women who try their best to be good and faithful Catholics, but whose hearts were touched deeply by priests.
Michael and I have had our disagreements early on, but I agree with Father Joe, his heart is in the right place. Michael, you are a sweetheart underneath your sometimes gruff comments. I know you mean well.
I think Michael has a lot of good things to say and is very knowlegeable and spiritually strong. (Mike – God has blessed you with a loving spouse; please pray that the rest of may be as lucky as you.) However, sometimes for reasons we do not understand, despite comittment to our Lord and serving others unselfishly, we are still without a mate. But God knows best and we have to trust Him. You’re right Michael, those of us who are lonesome or divorced are indeed guilty of envy and jealousy of happily married couples. I begrudge no one’s happiness; I just want my own as well. This is hard to deal with at times.
Suffice it to say that the many women who find themselves in love with a priest do not deliberately set out to chase them, lead them into sin and destroy a vocation.
Fr. Joe, Mary, Michael, Tess- I hope you continue to feel God’s love in your life daily and have a beautiful Easter Season.
Fr. Joe
I just wanted to say that I have personally emailed you on three separate occasions over the past year or so at the address you provided above and I have never received a response from you. I assumed it was due to you being very busy–but I never heard back from you. (but then again, I seem to have this effect on priests :)
Janine
To all those here I might have offended in my recent post I’m truly sorry. That is not my usual manner of dealing with hurt feelings, I became defensive from the comments being made. I came here searching for closure and support, it’s been a long, hard road for me, I’m very grateful to Fr. Joe for his kindness and his straightforward answers. It’s good for women like us to have a safe, non-judgmental place to come to try to heal.
Again, I’m sorry for my negative post, I would never want to be unkind and I believe I was.
God bless you Mary, Janine and all the other wonderful women out there! You have both touched my heart.
Tess
Yes Janine, I do mean well and I certainly would never initiate a fight, but I won’t back away from one either.
I just don’t like it when people get nasty because that makes me get nasty right back.
My wife is a great woman who took care of her ill parents for many years. She never misses Mass or prayers and she would NEVER, EVER think to fool around especially with a priest, contrary to that evil remark that was posted.
I’m NO better nor holier than anyone else because I ADMIT that I have a log in my own eye too.
As far as a person being single or a person being a widow or widower, I think that God’s divine will is ultimately in control of that. He always knows what’s best. Sometimes God loves a person so much that He wants to keep that person for Himself alone. To use her as an example if I may, I would say that this is so evident in the over night singing sensation from Scotland Susan Boyle. She’s Catholic, unemployed, and a church volunteer. There’s a case where God raised the humble unknown person to great heights in a short amount of time.
God had a definite plan for her as He does for everyone single,widowed, religious or married person.
I wish Susan the best of luck and may her light continue to shine brightly for the whole world to see.
For those who aren’t familiar with Susan Boyle, here she is
Take note of the number of views.
She’s fantastic!