Where Does a FIRED Catholic Priest Go?

« Father Cutie, Scandal & a Reflection on Celibacy

Where Does a FIRED Catholic Priest Go?

May 14, 2009 by Father Joe

I read one critic who argued that Father Cutie could defect to the Episcopalian Church, get married and continue his parish and media ministry. Yes, he could do this, but he might forfeit his soul in such a move. The moral state of people who were raised in the Episcopal or Anglican Church is one thing; the state of those who abandon Catholicism to join their ranks is another.

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The original Protestant reformers may have paid a terrible price in their break from Rome. They should have known better. The same cannot be said for those who were raised in the Protestant traditions. This is all they know. Those elements of Catholic faith preserved after the break may very well be meritorious for our Protestant brothers and sisters. However, those very same elements may convict former Catholics who were supposed to remain steadfast within the body of the Church and in the profession of all that we believe as true. Ignorance of the truth does provide some measure of excuse. Catholics in general and priests in particular, would have a more difficult time. They were one with the true Church. They professed its faith and received its sacraments. The conviction from the Fourth Lateran Council, Trent and in the margins of Vatican II cannot be escaped: there is no salvation outside the Church. Those who know, perfectly well, that the Catholic Church is the true Church, and then refuse to join or leave its ranks, might lose their place in the heavenly kingdom. In addition, the Holy Father has insisted that Protestant churches are ecclesial communities but not churches in the full Catholic sense. The Anglicans like to see themselves as a branch of Catholicism, but this sentiment is not shared by the successor of St. Peter. There are serious questions about apostolic succession and its priesthood and Mass. Non-Catholic communities suffer from many dire errors in teaching. Yes, the Episcopalians have married priests, but they also have openly gay clergy and (women) priestesses. They tolerate abortion, sodomy, fornication, contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc. I doubt Father Cutie could stomach such a so-called church for long.

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Posted in Priesthood, Religion, Sacraments, Sexuality, Television/Movies, Vocations | 12 Comments

12 Responses

on May 14, 2009 at 8:36 pm Dan

I hope that Fr. Cutie will take a very long & reflective retreat somewhere. I am worried that he might throw away his vocation (or worse) and then find out that he isn’t such an attraction without the “fame” and priestly vocation. He might end up losing his vocation AND the girl. Of course, I don’t think that he should have allowed the relationship to have gotten as serious as it seems to have become.

It’s a shame that this relationship wasn’t stopped in the beginning when it would have been much more emotionally easy.
on May 14, 2009 at 8:38 pm Dan

About where a fired priest is to go – I agree that the Episcopalians don’t seem like much of a choice, but then there is the Orthodox Church…….

FATHER JOE: And if the girl is not free to marry? Without laicization, any attempted marriage would be rejected by the Catholic Church as invalid. He might join an Eastern Church, but that in itself would not resolve the state of his soul. Of course, a priest can offer the sacraments, even if he, himself, is in mortal sin and commits sacriledge. He has promised and bound himself to our laws, regardless as to what civil law might permit and what regulations a “defective” church of the East might allow.
on May 15, 2009 at 10:44 am thevinyard

Hi,

Question- not quite relating to the above but more to your comments on true church etc…

May we dialogue a little?

Methodism in Britain- Catholic or Evangelcial? Do we balance the two?

Referenve to sacraments, social action, hymns….

You see- One-true- holy- catholic and apostolic… I would say, were in that,

We hold fast to the Scriptures, we observe the Eucharist and belive it to be a transforming ordinace, we baptise in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. We preach the Gospels and take this to ‘social action; to transform society… we ordain by the laying on of hands…

I would appreciate your comments please…

FATHER JOE: Catholicism would regard Methodism as more Evangelical than Catholic, although it was founded by an Episcopal priest. Methodist theology was traditionally understood as something accessible through its hymns. It is also a credal community, although revisionists have softened this element in recent years. Methodist baptism is usually recognized when members are received into the Catholic Church. There is also a good emphasis upon the Word of God. However, there are serious differences. The United States has seen a proliferation of women ministers (not calling themselves priests), and there are real debates within Methodism about this and other issues like homosexuality, abortion, divorce and remarriage, etc. John Wesley regarded abortion as murder. It is complained that Methodism is moving away from its roots.

While the Methodist Church claims the four marks of the true Church, Catholicism defines these marks very differently:

The Catholic Church sees the term of its oneness or unity in Jesus Christ who instituted the Church and gave us a visible head in Peter. While there may be accidental differences, Catholic churches everywhere teach the same truths and rely upon the same sacraments. There is also a juridical unity. To the extent that Methodism is not united to Catholicism, it lacks this oneness.

The Church is holy because Christ is holy. Holiness is understood as that otherness of God which remains as a mystery in the Church and which we receive by grace in the sacraments. Everything we need for salvation subsists in the Catholic Church.

The word “Catholic” simply means worldwide; the Church has a mission to go out to the whole world with the Gospel and to invite people into the family of faith. Just as the Church is one, she also has a universal nature. All men are called to know Christ and to be saved in her. Catholicism is never really a national church.

The word “Apostolic” refers to several things: (1) an unbroken line of succession from the apostles and through our bishops and priests; (2) a constant fidelity with apostolic teachings and practices, passing on the deposit of faith; and (3) the continuing protection of the historical Church by the Holy Spirit, particularly in regard to the teaching of faith and morals by the Pope and magisterium.

Cranmer breeched apostolic succession for the Anglican church by his revision of the Book of Common Prayer whereby sacrifice was denied of the Mass and the office of priesthood. This breech was not repaired until it was too late and the break was passed on to Methodism. It would also be argued that the apostolic traditions have not been adequately passed down in Protestant confessions, even though the biblical texts were retained with a few omissions.
on May 16, 2009 at 12:53 am Kala

I doubt Father Cutie could stomach such a so-called church for long.

Fr Cutie has apparently convinced himself that sex outside marriage is the way to go and I think he would stomach anything as long as he could continue having sex and still be in the limelight.

FATHER JOE: Did he say that he was having unlawful relations? I am confused by his statements about intimacy. I would hope that he would just shut up about it. The pictures are bad but they would not necessarily sink his priesthood. We do believe in repentance and amendment of life. But the more he talks, the worse this situation becomes. The public is going crazy in this media frenzy and the majority of voices are critical, not of him, but of the Church. People have it backwards! That is why I have made blog entries in support of the Church’s stance.
on May 16, 2009 at 9:35 pm CatholicGirl

I saw both of his interviews and he said point blank that he had been having sexual relations with the woman for over two years. He said that while he “understands” celibacy that he feels it should be “optional.” He said that he “loves” the woman and that he feels it is unnecessary to apologize for falling in love. He said that he wants to marry her and understands he can not be a priest if he does so.

As I said in the other post, as a celibate young woman I feel that the Church is correct and that Father Cutie’s interviews in the face of the scandal he has caused has brought great harm to the church.

The Catholic Church in America is under attack. 70% of people in one diocese said that they don’t believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist! Bishops must take a stand and say enough is enough. Only 70 Bishops spoke out about the Notre Dame Scandal. Now a new report shows that Notre Dame’s president Father Jenkins is on the board of an organization that supports condom distribution in Africa! His blatant refusal to obey the Church should be cause for some discipline!

I find myself, as a Catholic, avoiding websites and media because there is never anything good printed about the Church and I become angry. In particular there seems to be a lot of Catholics who don’t know their faith, some that do and refuse to obey (Biden, Pellosi, etc) and Bishops afraid of disenfranchising their flock.

We need more Priests and Bishops to take a stand for the Church for a smaller, more devout flock. We also need some serious reeducation of our believers.
on May 19, 2009 at 11:32 pm Andy

Father Joe,

I don’t know why I keep reading your blog. I do, though. Maybe I am just a glutton for punishment. I don’t know.

Anyways, I don’t understand why you always feel the need to attack other churches. You come out swinging against The Episcopal Church in this post. Why? What good are you doing? Why would someone like me, a proud Episcopalian, ever want to join your “true” church when you are just so filled with hate? I am starting to think that everyone in the Roman Church is like this. Yikes!

FATHER JOE:

I would not consider my statements as attacks. However, churches are not the same and I feel that certain ones pose real dangers to Catholic Christians. The fact that the Episcopal “church” shares so many external elements makes it a particular problem. The substance of faith and morals is really not the same. Even the Holy Father has sympathized with conservative or traditional Anglicans who feel that their communion has been stolen from them. Catholics struggle with ecumenism on one hand and an utter rejection of religious relativism on the other. My statement was somewhat qualified, “The moral state of people who were raised in the Episcopal or Anglican church is one thing; the state of those who abandon Catholicism to join their ranks is another.” There are elements of the truth still remaining in the Episcopal churches, like the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the sacrament of baptism. However, the Catholic negative verdict against their Eucharist and Holy Orders has never been rescinded. A Catholic priest has no business, if he truly thinks with the mind of the true Church, in straying into the ranks of the Episcopal church. This is not meant to be mean-spirited. It is just a statement as to how I see the facts.

As for yourself joining the Catholic Church, I would prefer you did not if you did not believe in all that the Catholic Church holds to be true. Your own blog makes clear that you hold various liberal positions. We have enough dissenters already; why should we want more?

And, furthermore, how is it that you get so upset when others attack your church but then you go and do the same to other churches? Others aren’t ever allowed to criticize the Roman Church but you are free to criticize any other church any time that you want? This is not right.

FATHER JOE: Did I say that I play fair on my Blog? I get the last word. But I did not say that Episcopalians are going to hell. I disagree with a number of its new teachings and reject the general efficacy of certain Anglican sacraments; however, I have a deep respect for the discipleship of many of its adherents. You are the one who comes to my Blog all hot and bothered. You really are not very tolerant of what you see as Catholic intolerance. Hum, is that somewhat circular?

I really should just stop reading your blog, but I probably won’t. It’s not because I like what you have to say–it’s more that I think you are a joke and that what you write is a joke. I don’t think that you actually believe all that you write. Deep down I bet that you really wish that Roman priests could marry. And I bet that you think it would be nice to see women ordained to the priesthood in your church.

Thanks for the laugh. Andy

FATHER JOE:

I cannot say what Spirit moves you to read my Blog. Could it be providential? Maybe it is simply the surprise that not everyone shares your view of religion and the relationship between churches? Coming from someone like you, I am proud to be regarded as a JOKE. I would rather be a fool for Christ and an authentic priest of the true Church instituted by Jesus than a man swayed by human convention in the ecclesial community founded by Henry VIII.

As for married priests, we already have them in small numbers (particularly in the Eastern rites of Catholicism). Our permanent deacons are clergy and are both married and single. There is talk that if the conservative Anglicans are received as a group into the Catholic Church, they will be permitted to retain their discipline for both married and celibate priests. But, my preference is that mandatory celibacy be retained in the Roman rite of the Catholic Church. I think it best serves our needs. As for priestesses, there is no such creature except in the false pagan religions. However, as I would generally reject the validity of the Episcopalian priesthood, the subject becomes largely mute in your regard. But, I must say that externally sometimes your liturgies are very beautiful, even if they are largely a matter of dress up and pretend. (Oops, okay, now that was nasty… apologies!)
on May 20, 2009 at 5:26 pm Andy

Father Joe,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate you and your blog–I really do (and I am not being sarcastic when I say that). I don’t agree with you or the Roman Church, but I respect you and your church. I have many friends who are always very rude when it comes to talking about the RCC. They like to make ridiculous claims like all priests are pedophiles and so forth. I defend your church because I know this to be foolish. I like your church. I like your pope (although I must say that I liked JPII a little more). Heck I even like you. You are a good priest–I can tell.

I say all of that to say this: I want to apologize for my last comment. I don’t think that you are a joke nor do I think that your church is a joke. In fact, I think that your church is quite wonderful. With that being said, I am still a proud Episcopalian and I will remain so for the rest of my life. I don’t like everything that the Roman Church has done, but that is ok.

I hope that when I am ordained to the priesthood in the next couple of years that I will be a good priest like you. You defend your faith and you defend your church–I like that. I don’t agree with you on a lot of things, but I like your tenacity.

So again I say I am sorry. I don’t apologize for what I believe, but I apologize for mocking you. It was uncalled for on my part. Just take it easy on us Episcopalians even if you do think that we are liberal nut jobs (which many of us are)!

Peace,
Andy

FATHER JOE: It’s okay Andy, I was having a little fun at your expense at the end, and I probably should have restrained myself. Yes, we do have serious differences. But I will keep you in my prayers– that you will grow ever deeper and deeper in love with the Lord. There is much that divides us, but Christ makes himself into a bridge for those who obey his great commandment, to love one another. Believers are joined with him in this world and with the saints who await us on the Promised Shore. Hit the books hard, be mindful of your prayers, and chuckle at the irony that a roly-poly priest of Rome is praying for your holiness and success. Peace! Father Joe
on May 22, 2009 at 10:23 am Jake

Fired for being a normal man who fell in love with a woman!!! The so-called ‘church’ moves pedophiles around like the cup and ball trick knowing they will continue to brutally [expletive deleted] little children but fire a man because he loves a woman. What a sick demented system. The priesthood is a custom made haven for pedophiles and homosexuals and these obscene freaks dare to judge ANYONE?! What is even worse is the fact that the simple minded dimwits that call themselves catholics fund, feed and house these hucksters. Unbelievable!

As long as there are people stupid enough to buy into this con I would say they are getting what they [expletive deleted] deserve but my heart breaks for children who are forced into this revolting religion of evil. It should be considered child abuse. No church has the right to tell anyone how to live and thankfully with the internet information that the church once guarded and forbid people to read is being made available. Only hopeless fools will continue in the prison and slavery of lies known as religion. Read Thomas Paine’s The Age of Reason online free and get a [expletive deleted] clue.

Nostradaemus prophesied that the RCC would fall someday and be exposed for the evil system is it and I hope it comes to pass in my lifetime. The lives that were snuffed out and children who have been savaged by these [expletive deleted]s are too numerous to number and the ‘followers’ are too fearful and too [expletive deleted] stupid to research the history of this twisted venomous blood sucking cult.

FATHER JOE: Vulgarity, bigotry and ignorance is sometimes its own rebuttal. I do not know what is wrong with you or who hurt you, but I will keep you in prayer.
on May 22, 2009 at 5:28 pm Lady Godless

Did you used to be Catholic, Jake? What are your beliefs now?
on May 22, 2009 at 7:07 pm Jake

“Christ is present in the Eucharist”?????? I have but one question. Does he taste like chicken? Haven’t you sheople eaten all the leftovers by now?!

FATHER JOE: You mock a great mystery and show little respect to the faith of others. That is not very mature. Yes, we believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, both in his person and in his activity. The accidents or appearances (like taste) are not changed. There is no exterior alteration to the bread and wine. However, we believe there is a substantial change. Our Lord’s flesh and blood cannot be exhausted because he is never diminished. We believe that every drop from the cup and every crumb of the host is the complete and whole Jesus, risen from the dead, body, soul, humanity and divinity. He gives us himself so that we might have a share in his life.
on May 22, 2009 at 9:26 pm Janine

Jake

May I ask if you were abused by a priest? Your anger and outrage knows no bounds.

Please tell us what brought you to this point of absoute loathing of the Catholic Church.
on May 24, 2009 at 1:27 am Jake

Yummy, Jesus crackers and Jesus juice. Cannabalism and Vampirism all in one service.

FATHER JOE: You remind me of a poor sick person who desecrated the Blessed Sacrament and placed his disgraceful sins on YouTube. I have already made a distinction between a sacramental presence and the graphic physical. The Eucharist is a clean sacrifice. There is no visible corpse and no drained blood. The appearances of bread and wine remain but there is a substantial change. Catholics believe the risen Jesus gives us a share in his life.

Hell no, I am not and never was part of the RC cult! I may be one of the few who was never [expletive deleted] by a priest of the ‘infallable church’.

FATHER JOE: If you have never been a Catholic at least that is one disgrace for which no one can blame the Catholic Church. Again, look at what you say and what you are doing. Lacking specificity, you condemn the good with the bad.

All religions are lies but the RCC is by far the most vicious and blood thirsty. What a [expletive deleted] sick history!

FATHER JOE: A lot has happened in 2,000 years. If you really want to know what the Church is about, look at the lives of the saints. That is where we most see God’s grace working in the Church throughout human history.